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One thing I’m unclear on still is the windows VM situation. Is it just that “right now” we can’t run a windows VM but with some work by Apple/Microsoft/Paralle

One thing I’m unclear on still is the windows VM situation. Is it just that “right now” we can’t run a windows VM but with some work by Apple/Microsoft/Parallels it can happen or is there some fundamental blocker here? I thought there was an ARM version of Windows already?

minimaxir 6y ago
Windows ARM is not available to OEMs. Parallels is trying emulation on M1 but who knows how well that will work. https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-silicon-mac/ https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-sili...
- roseway4 6y ago
  In the article, I don’t see mention of Windows x64 running as a guest. They do hint at Windows for ARM, though.
  - kristianp 6y ago
    There is no hint of anything to do with windows in the article whatsoever.
    - mkl 6y ago
      "Parallels is also amazed by the news from Microsoft about adding support of x64 applications in Windows on ARM."
- ACAVJW4H 6y ago
  I had the impression that, virtualization was not possible on current M1. As I sadly discovered that docker didn’t and won’t run on current silicon. Is it still possible for parallels to move forward without virtualization ?
  - thrwyoilarticle 6y ago
    It is possible
  - easton 6y ago
    Virtualization is possible on the M1, it is not possible on the Developer Transition Kit which uses a A12Z chip without Virtualization extensions. It can only virtualize ARM, of course.
    - ACAVJW4H 6y ago
      That’s great news! I was disappointed since I read the discussion on github. I clearly misunderstood. Thanks!
  - mr_toad 6y ago
    I wouldn’t really expect x86 virtualisation instructions to be supported under Rosetta. You’re going to need an ARM version of Docker, running ARM Linux kernels, and ARM userland Linux binaries.
  - lmm 6y ago
    Virtualisation within the x86 emulation isn't possible. So you can't just run the x86 build of parallels and have it work. But it should be possible to build a new dedicated ARM version of parallels.
  - Joeri 6y ago
    It is possible, but docker is not yet ported. The docker images you run will have to be ARM images, as docker cannot emulate x86. Docker supports multi-arch images with their buildx infrastructure, so this situation will fix itself over time. Most of the official base images already support ARM.
- p1necone 6y ago
  > Windows ARM is not available to OEMs. Not "officially", but you can get hold of it as an individual and install it on e.g. a raspberry pi relatively easily already. Running it in a VM might be doable. Actual Windows 10 ARM too, not the restrictive IoT version that's officially supported on the pi. https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/01/27/windows-10-arm-on-raspberry-pi-4/ https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/01/27/windows-10-arm-on-r...
roseway4 6y ago
Parallels is planning an ARM release[1]. This won’t run Intel arch Windows, but rather they hint that it will Windows for ARM64. They also mention Microsoft’s recent announcement that Windows for ARM will soon have the ability to run x64 (Intel arch) applications. [1] https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-silicon-mac/ https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-sili...
- rbanffy 6y ago
  > Windows for ARM will soon have the ability to run x64 (Intel arch) applications. I remember this was promised a long time ago. I'm surprised it's not the case.
  - reader_mode 6y ago
    I remember Intel "warning" that x86 emulation is riddled with IP/patents - now that they are falling behind I fully expect them to turn to milking competition by patent trolling - sort of like Microsoft back in the Android vs Windows Phone days.
    - als0 6y ago
      The basic x64 patents were close to expiring at the time and may have expired by now. I suspect they were waiting for that to happen before releasing 64 bit support.
- kristianp 6y ago
  If you read that link, there is no hint at anything to do with Windows on there at all. It's quite a short press release, it makes no mention of what might be run inside parallels. I would expect linux to run, but Windows would be complete speculation. The link does mention an early access program.
- Joeri 6y ago
  Those are weasel words. They are not saying parallels will run windows ARM. Read carefully and see what they're actually saying. There is not even a hint that parallels will run windows ARM on M1 macs, but the sequence of sentences creates the illusion of one. Parallels, like vmware, is depending on microsoft here. If microsoft doesn't play ball there will be no windows on apple silicon macs. Currently there can be no officially supported way of running windows ARM on M1 macs, as the windows license does not allow it.
mekster 6y ago
VMware also commented on trying to work on it. https://mobile.twitter.com/VMwareFusion/status/1326229094648832000 https://mobile.twitter.com/VMwareFusion/status/1326229094648...
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
A lot depends on Microsoft and my guess is they would prefer to offer Windows in the cloud for Apple users.

minimaxir 6y ago

Windows ARM is not available to OEMs. Parallels is trying emulation on M1 but who knows how well that will work. https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-silicon-mac/ https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-sili...

roseway4 6y ago
In the article, I don’t see mention of Windows x64 running as a guest. They do hint at Windows for ARM, though.
- kristianp 6y ago
  There is no hint of anything to do with windows in the article whatsoever.
  - mkl 6y ago
    "Parallels is also amazed by the news from Microsoft about adding support of x64 applications in Windows on ARM."
ACAVJW4H 6y ago
I had the impression that, virtualization was not possible on current M1. As I sadly discovered that docker didn’t and won’t run on current silicon. Is it still possible for parallels to move forward without virtualization ?
- thrwyoilarticle 6y ago
  It is possible
- easton 6y ago
  Virtualization is possible on the M1, it is not possible on the Developer Transition Kit which uses a A12Z chip without Virtualization extensions. It can only virtualize ARM, of course.
  - ACAVJW4H 6y ago
    That’s great news! I was disappointed since I read the discussion on github. I clearly misunderstood. Thanks!
- mr_toad 6y ago
  I wouldn’t really expect x86 virtualisation instructions to be supported under Rosetta. You’re going to need an ARM version of Docker, running ARM Linux kernels, and ARM userland Linux binaries.
- lmm 6y ago
  Virtualisation within the x86 emulation isn't possible. So you can't just run the x86 build of parallels and have it work. But it should be possible to build a new dedicated ARM version of parallels.
- Joeri 6y ago
  It is possible, but docker is not yet ported. The docker images you run will have to be ARM images, as docker cannot emulate x86. Docker supports multi-arch images with their buildx infrastructure, so this situation will fix itself over time. Most of the official base images already support ARM.
p1necone 6y ago
> Windows ARM is not available to OEMs. Not "officially", but you can get hold of it as an individual and install it on e.g. a raspberry pi relatively easily already. Running it in a VM might be doable. Actual Windows 10 ARM too, not the restrictive IoT version that's officially supported on the pi. https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/01/27/windows-10-arm-on-raspberry-pi-4/ https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/01/27/windows-10-arm-on-r...

roseway4 6y ago

Parallels is planning an ARM release[1]. This won’t run Intel arch Windows, but rather they hint that it will Windows for ARM64. They also mention Microsoft’s recent announcement that Windows for ARM will soon have the ability to run x64 (Intel arch) applications. [1] https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-silicon-mac/ https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-sili...

rbanffy 6y ago
> Windows for ARM will soon have the ability to run x64 (Intel arch) applications. I remember this was promised a long time ago. I'm surprised it's not the case.
- reader_mode 6y ago
  I remember Intel "warning" that x86 emulation is riddled with IP/patents - now that they are falling behind I fully expect them to turn to milking competition by patent trolling - sort of like Microsoft back in the Android vs Windows Phone days.
  - als0 6y ago
    The basic x64 patents were close to expiring at the time and may have expired by now. I suspect they were waiting for that to happen before releasing 64 bit support.
kristianp 6y ago
If you read that link, there is no hint at anything to do with Windows on there at all. It's quite a short press release, it makes no mention of what might be run inside parallels. I would expect linux to run, but Windows would be complete speculation. The link does mention an early access program.
Joeri 6y ago
Those are weasel words. They are not saying parallels will run windows ARM. Read carefully and see what they're actually saying. There is not even a hint that parallels will run windows ARM on M1 macs, but the sequence of sentences creates the illusion of one. Parallels, like vmware, is depending on microsoft here. If microsoft doesn't play ball there will be no windows on apple silicon macs. Currently there can be no officially supported way of running windows ARM on M1 macs, as the windows license does not allow it.

mekster 6y ago

VMware also commented on trying to work on it. https://mobile.twitter.com/VMwareFusion/status/1326229094648832000 https://mobile.twitter.com/VMwareFusion/status/1326229094648...

tonyedgecombe 6y ago

A lot depends on Microsoft and my guess is they would prefer to offer Windows in the cloud for Apple users.