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Nah, China will dominate because we the western world have at least some scruples and decided that economic growth must not come with complete disregard for wor

Nah, China will dominate because we the western world have at least some scruples and decided that economic growth must not come with complete disregard for worker safety or environmental concerns. But for some reason, if we just pay China to slave drive their people and pollute on our behalf, then it’s ok. Please tell me why you think I’m wrong.

sudosysgen 6y ago
The Western world was happy to make its workers slave away until workers violently resisted with strikes and riots. The Western world established dictatorships abroad to palliates this, whose workers have no safety and where the environment is an afterthought to compensate. It has nothing to do with scruples. It's just that we pretty much force poor countries to act this way. FWIW, working conditions and environmental concerns seem to be improving in China as GDP per capita rises and they can afford not to compete with other low income countries on price.
- bananabiscuit 6y ago
  Yes I mistakenly tried to make the west out to be righteous, but it’s not. My main point should have been not that we are better than China, but that we fool ourselves into thinking that we are better by outsourcing everything that would get our hands dirty. The only way to correct this, I think, would be to in-globalize a bit. This is the problem with free trade. We have to dis-incentivize products that were made in conditions that don’t meet our supposed ethical standards. Even if they were made in a different country. Otherwise products that were made ethically cannot compete in the market.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    I agree with you on all points, then. I think another overlooked benefit of your proposition is that, as it is, democratically elected government only barely have control over the economy, as it is so global. If we de-globalized a bit then people would have more sovereignty over their economy.

sudosysgen 6y ago

The Western world was happy to make its workers slave away until workers violently resisted with strikes and riots. The Western world established dictatorships abroad to palliates this, whose workers have no safety and where the environment is an afterthought to compensate. It has nothing to do with scruples. It's just that we pretty much force poor countries to act this way. FWIW, working conditions and environmental concerns seem to be improving in China as GDP per capita rises and they can afford not to compete with other low income countries on price.

bananabiscuit 6y ago
Yes I mistakenly tried to make the west out to be righteous, but it’s not. My main point should have been not that we are better than China, but that we fool ourselves into thinking that we are better by outsourcing everything that would get our hands dirty. The only way to correct this, I think, would be to in-globalize a bit. This is the problem with free trade. We have to dis-incentivize products that were made in conditions that don’t meet our supposed ethical standards. Even if they were made in a different country. Otherwise products that were made ethically cannot compete in the market.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  I agree with you on all points, then. I think another overlooked benefit of your proposition is that, as it is, democratically elected government only barely have control over the economy, as it is so global. If we de-globalized a bit then people would have more sovereignty over their economy.