4 ms·

I find this to be highly unlikely. I took statins for about two weeks and started getting weird muscle pains and aches which resolved within 2-3 days after endi

I find this to be highly unlikely. I took statins for about two weeks and started getting weird muscle pains and aches which resolved within 2-3 days after ending treatment. I didn't even know that muscle pains were a potential side effect until I brought it up with my doctor. I take several drugs, and statins are the only one which have brought on notable physical symptoms; so I find it unlikely that this is "all in my head", because I'm not mentally paying attention to what individual drugs are doing to my body. I find this reporting to be so irresponsible that it is borderline unethical in my opinion.

crispyporkbites 6y ago
I don’t doubt what you say is true, but basing science off of self reported anecdotes is actually unethical. If you want to critique this at least attack the methodology, authors or something.
- slumdev 6y ago
  This study demonstrates only that the 60 participants in it are suggestible. 1. All participants in the study had previously been on statins and had stopped taking statins because they experienced side effects. Any results obtained from this study are not generalizable. 2. They did not separate the participants into groups. There was no control. A better design might be to have 1/3 of the group take actual statins for 12 months, 1/3 take a placebo, and 1/3 take nothing.
  - dogmatism 6y ago
    The participants are their own control. It's a blinded crossover study. Actually one of the best kind.
- nikkwong 6y ago
  Yes I agree with that. I should have prefaced this with n=1.
Pyramus 6y ago
I find research into the placebo/nocebo effect very interesting, and from what I understand it has been shown, that * the effect results in real physical change, * the effect is independent of whether you believe in it. E.g. there is a number of RCT studies on acupuncture where needles are placed randomly, still people experience amelioration of symptoms. So I'm wondering you are thinking that nocebo is equivalent with "in your head"?
- nikkwong 6y ago
  I absolutely subscribe to the fact that placebo/nocebo can be as (or even more) powerful than the intervention that a candidate believes that they are receiving. When I read anecdotes that fall out of line with our scientific understanding of the facts (such as the one I posed above), my default assumption is that we're witnessing placebo at play. From the outside, I definitely would not trust my anecdote. After my experience though, and now knowing what I know about the drug, I still wouldn't chalk my experience up to placebo. I guess that's the catch-22 of the phenomenon, eh?

crispyporkbites 6y ago

I don’t doubt what you say is true, but basing science off of self reported anecdotes is actually unethical. If you want to critique this at least attack the methodology, authors or something.

slumdev 6y ago
This study demonstrates only that the 60 participants in it are suggestible. 1. All participants in the study had previously been on statins and had stopped taking statins because they experienced side effects. Any results obtained from this study are not generalizable. 2. They did not separate the participants into groups. There was no control. A better design might be to have 1/3 of the group take actual statins for 12 months, 1/3 take a placebo, and 1/3 take nothing.
- dogmatism 6y ago
  The participants are their own control. It's a blinded crossover study. Actually one of the best kind.
nikkwong 6y ago
Yes I agree with that. I should have prefaced this with n=1.

Pyramus 6y ago

I find research into the placebo/nocebo effect very interesting, and from what I understand it has been shown, that * the effect results in real physical change, * the effect is independent of whether you believe in it. E.g. there is a number of RCT studies on acupuncture where needles are placed randomly, still people experience amelioration of symptoms. So I'm wondering you are thinking that nocebo is equivalent with "in your head"?

nikkwong 6y ago
I absolutely subscribe to the fact that placebo/nocebo can be as (or even more) powerful than the intervention that a candidate believes that they are receiving. When I read anecdotes that fall out of line with our scientific understanding of the facts (such as the one I posed above), my default assumption is that we're witnessing placebo at play. From the outside, I definitely would not trust my anecdote. After my experience though, and now knowing what I know about the drug, I still wouldn't chalk my experience up to placebo. I guess that's the catch-22 of the phenomenon, eh?