5 ms·

According to Wikipedia: > The most important adverse side effects are muscle problems, an increased risk of diabetes mellitus, and increased liver enzymes in t

by elric 6y ago

According to Wikipedia: > The most important adverse side effects are muscle problems, an increased risk of diabetes mellitus, and increased liver enzymes in the blood due to liver damage. I can understand the nocebo effect giving you a headache, or even preventing the rug from reaching it full potential somehow, but diabetes? Liver damage? That's a hard pill to swallow. How does that work?

giantg2 6y ago
I personally know three people who experienced side effects and had no idea that it could have been linked to the statins. One had liver damage that tooks months to recover from. Another had colitis symptoms and they went away after stopping statins. A third became very weak, to the point of having trouble getting out of bed. He stopped the statins and was back to normal about a week later. All three of these people were extremely skeptical that the statins could be the problem and were astonished at the improvement. It's hard to say how mindset affected the symptoms and recovery. They all believed the statins would help them and were also skeptical that stopping them would help.
- chiefalchemist 6y ago
  The study was for a group of 60. That number feels unnecessarily small given how often statins are prescribed, to your point.
- bb88 6y ago
  It is interesting, but keep in mind there may also be 100 others in your social circle taking statins without any side effects whatsoever. I don't typically talk with my friends about the lack of side effects of medications I'm on. It's possible too that liver damage could have been caused by taking acetominophen with heavy alcohol use (e.g.), which the person might have been embarrassed to admit. I don't know. I don't know your friend. I'm also not accusing your friend of lying, but it wouldn't surprise me given human behavior.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    "...keep in mind there may also be 100 others in your social circle taking statins without any side effects..." Not 100 (I don't have that many friends), but true. I'm not saying there's tons of side effects or that they are common. I was just saying that I know of 3 examples that make me question some things related to the study. For example, if I know 3 people with seemingly true side effects and they are part of the 10% of people with side effects, so that should mean I should know 30 people with side effects. And then I should know how many people taking statins? Even if 50% have side effects, then I'd need to know 60 people taking them in my fairly small (and young) group of family and friends. Maybe my group is too small to have a valid sample size, the study could be questionable (like the one on statins and longevity that recommended prescribing statins to basically every elderly person), or there is some other issue I'm missing. It would be nearly impossible to tell if someone was lying. I don't know that person very well, but from what they said it shouldnt be an issue. I would guess his flight surgeon investigated that as a possible cause since they are pretty strict about what medications you are allowed to take (the statin was prescribed by a different doctor and that caused some drama).
    - bb88 6y ago
      Keep in mind about 35 million people in the US take statins, and liver damage is caused by a lot of things including hepatitis. That said, one of the best medical stories to come out of the last century was the doctor who discovered that phen-fen caused heart valve issues in a handful of patients he was treating. It wasn't the FDA, it was a doctor who saw it in his patients and discovered that was the only thing that was common in all of his patients.
Gibbon1 6y ago
It's easy how it works. Liver damage isn't the cardiologists problem. Very similar to dermatologists telling people to avoid the sun and use heavy sun screen. And now public health nurses are seeing kids in wealthy communities with rickets.
- sp332 6y ago
  elric wants to know how a placebo/nocebo effect can cause liver damage.
dogmatism 6y ago
Actual hepatic damage in the absence of drug interactions is quite rare, and the increase in diabetes is over years. This study didn't look at those outcomes.
bb88 6y ago
My recollection from being prescribed a statin is that the doctor wanted me to see how I would "tolerate" it, and to let him know if I had any "muscle aches". Hell, once I got past the age of 40 my muscles ache quite a bit some days. Is it coincidence or is it caused by the statin? This could be true with tiredness as well. As far as liver damage, yeah, that's got to be either a drug interaction or by bad behaviors (heavy drinking, etc).

by elric 6y ago

giantg2 6y ago

I personally know three people who experienced side effects and had no idea that it could have been linked to the statins. One had liver damage that tooks months to recover from. Another had colitis symptoms and they went away after stopping statins. A third became very weak, to the point of having trouble getting out of bed. He stopped the statins and was back to normal about a week later. All three of these people were extremely skeptical that the statins could be the problem and were astonished at the improvement. It's hard to say how mindset affected the symptoms and recovery. They all believed the statins would help them and were also skeptical that stopping them would help.

chiefalchemist 6y ago
The study was for a group of 60. That number feels unnecessarily small given how often statins are prescribed, to your point.
bb88 6y ago
It is interesting, but keep in mind there may also be 100 others in your social circle taking statins without any side effects whatsoever. I don't typically talk with my friends about the lack of side effects of medications I'm on. It's possible too that liver damage could have been caused by taking acetominophen with heavy alcohol use (e.g.), which the person might have been embarrassed to admit. I don't know. I don't know your friend. I'm also not accusing your friend of lying, but it wouldn't surprise me given human behavior.
- giantg2 6y ago
  "...keep in mind there may also be 100 others in your social circle taking statins without any side effects..." Not 100 (I don't have that many friends), but true. I'm not saying there's tons of side effects or that they are common. I was just saying that I know of 3 examples that make me question some things related to the study. For example, if I know 3 people with seemingly true side effects and they are part of the 10% of people with side effects, so that should mean I should know 30 people with side effects. And then I should know how many people taking statins? Even if 50% have side effects, then I'd need to know 60 people taking them in my fairly small (and young) group of family and friends. Maybe my group is too small to have a valid sample size, the study could be questionable (like the one on statins and longevity that recommended prescribing statins to basically every elderly person), or there is some other issue I'm missing. It would be nearly impossible to tell if someone was lying. I don't know that person very well, but from what they said it shouldnt be an issue. I would guess his flight surgeon investigated that as a possible cause since they are pretty strict about what medications you are allowed to take (the statin was prescribed by a different doctor and that caused some drama).
  - bb88 6y ago
    Keep in mind about 35 million people in the US take statins, and liver damage is caused by a lot of things including hepatitis. That said, one of the best medical stories to come out of the last century was the doctor who discovered that phen-fen caused heart valve issues in a handful of patients he was treating. It wasn't the FDA, it was a doctor who saw it in his patients and discovered that was the only thing that was common in all of his patients.

Gibbon1 6y ago

It's easy how it works. Liver damage isn't the cardiologists problem. Very similar to dermatologists telling people to avoid the sun and use heavy sun screen. And now public health nurses are seeing kids in wealthy communities with rickets.

sp332 6y ago
elric wants to know how a placebo/nocebo effect can cause liver damage.

dogmatism 6y ago

Actual hepatic damage in the absence of drug interactions is quite rare, and the increase in diabetes is over years. This study didn't look at those outcomes.

bb88 6y ago

My recollection from being prescribed a statin is that the doctor wanted me to see how I would "tolerate" it, and to let him know if I had any "muscle aches". Hell, once I got past the age of 40 my muscles ache quite a bit some days. Is it coincidence or is it caused by the statin? This could be true with tiredness as well. As far as liver damage, yeah, that's got to be either a drug interaction or by bad behaviors (heavy drinking, etc).