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Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm
by EB-Barrington 6y ago
Post author here.
Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert).
If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. Sounds cliched, but look at reality - I was taking photos in a place where I don't particularly belong (it's kind of my hobby since "retiring" from tech), and you may assume that a poverty-stricken, much maligned group of people would be wary of "outsiders".
Indeed, the exact opposite was the case.
edit: with regards to racism, a story I was told in the same city is perhaps the best example of just how far Bulgaria (in this example) has to climb. I asked a local Bulgarian friend why I didn't see Roma working at the local restaurants. He said that would be really bad for the business - to have a Gypsy waiter, or cashier, or in any "public facing" role. I voiced my assumption that perhaps they were working back-of-house, in the kitchen. He said they weren't - if the public found out a Gypsy was working in the kitchen, most people would never dine at that restaurant.
- Causality1 6y agoYou use the word "gypsy" a lot. The Roma I've met consider it very offensive, almost n-word level offensive. Is that not the case in Europe?
- EB-Barrington 6y agoNot that I have encountered. Perhaps all of the Gypsy/Roma I have spoken with are too polite to let me know otherwise.
- emteycz 6y agoHere in Czechia many use the 'vulgar' variant (cikán) themselves. I wouldn't use it in my writing though.
- malkia 6y agoIt's "циганин" (tsiganin, or ciganin) in Bulgaria. But this is now deemed offensive, hence roma.
- ratww 6y agoIn Brazil (which has a sizeable Romani population, and had two Romani presidents), the direct translation of this, "Cigano", is still the one officially used.
- figomore 6y agoI didn’t know that Brazil had two presidents with Romani origin. According to Wikipedia they are Juscelino Kubitscheck and Washington Luís.
- vram22 6y agoInterestingly, many variants of that word in different European languages. See section Exonyms in: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- crispyporkbites 6y agoIt’s complicated. Ultimately it’s rude to refer to anyone by their skin colour, ethnicity or racial “group”. There are almost no situations where it’s appropriate.
- AussieWog93 6y agoIn the US and certain upper-middle class echelons of other Western nations, maybe. Outside of that bubble, though, it ranges from neutral to positive to acknowledge a person's ethnicity.
- NoImmatureAdHom 6y agoThis is how I understand the world to be too
- thisrod 6y agoLol at the nominative determinism!
- AussieWog93 6y agoI didn't even realise. That's hilarious!
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoAlthough at the NGO level activists claim that "Roma" should be used instead of "gypsy", it is very common when talking to Balkan Roma to be corrected by them: “Don’t call us Roma, we’re <locally used exonym equivalent to ‘gypsies’>". Obviously their own endonym is Rom, plural Roma, but they sometimes bristle at outsiders using it.
- Bost 6y agoI have the impression those being better off, with (somewhat) higher social status, education being better connected to the majority population find "Gypsy" to be derogatory. But once I met a poor family referring to themselves this way, so a bit perplexed and curious I rather asked them directly if they consider themselves being Roma or Gypsy... only to get an ambiguous answer. Edit: I met that family in the eastern Slovakia.
- Viliam1234 6y agoIt depends. Sometimes, older people will call themselves "Gypsy" and may even correct you if you call them "Roma". But younger people have been taught that "Gypsy" is an offense, so they will get offended if you use the word.
- colesdefectum 6y agoIncredible photos and a great story. Thanks for putting this together. People forget all too easily how everyone in this world is trying to live their best life with the resources they have. That becomes exponentially more difficult when someone treats you as less of a person for whatever delusional reasons they rationalize in their minds.
- EB-Barrington 6y agoThanks, my pleasure.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- malkia 6y agoThank you for your article. I now know more than about my country than before. We have similar ghetto in my home city Burgas, but due to my grand-father working in the area, and my mom too - never felt that much threatened.
- dvh 6y agoHow does it compare to Luník IX?
- EB-Barrington 6y agoI haven't visited - but Stolipinovo is much larger.
- shadowprofile77 6y agoAs a long-time "hobby" photographer of street and neighborhood life in certain parts of Mexico, I'm curious, how did you build rapport with the locals for the sake of your photography, and that friendly acceptance. I'd love to hear any advice or observations you have.
- EB-Barrington 6y agoJust be kind, confident, honest, and friendly. As with most things in life - practice practice practice.
- shadowprofile77 6y agoOf course, but were you frequently asked why you were taking photos? In your case, what explanation would you give? Wonderful shots by the way, and thank you for your reply.
- EB-Barrington 6y agoThanks for the compliment! Yes, I was asked several times that day what I was doing. My explanation was "I'm just taking photos". Lame, but it works if you show a little smile.
- shadowprofile77 6y agoExactly what I've done so many times! Good to know it works just fine in other contexts.
- kazinator 6y agoBe a white English-speaking foreigner, and spend money.
- justnotworthit 6y agoYou wrestled with a screaming guy trying to rip the camera out of your hands. A common travel cliche is "99% of people are friendly to you". That's a good thing, but I want to know what the 1% and 0.1% are likely do to you.
- drevil-v2 6y agoMostly peaceful
- 3np 6y agoThe first thing that stands out to me is the choice of the word "gypsy". While many Roma are perfectly fine with it and even use it themselves, there are also many who find the word offensive and it has historically been used as a racial slur. Why not drop the word alltogether and fall back to the (at least to my understanding) neutral "roma"?
- smegger001 6y agoIn all honestly many people in North America would not know who the Roma are but would know what group you are talking about when you say gypsy.
- fierarul 6y agoSuch a silly choice. If some people really hate a group won't the new self designated word become a racial slur too? What then?
- adrianN 6y agoYou get what is commonly known as the "euphemism cycle", or the "euphemism treadmill": https://www.jstor.org/stable/3087798 https://www.jstor.org/stable/3087798
- bootcampwhere 6y agoYeh, it's retarded.
- monocasa 6y agoGypsy was always a slur. It's not a case of a euphemism treadmill.
- rixed 6y agoSince you sounds honest and not sarcastic, may I take this opportunity to ask you what mechanism do you believe will help improving the actual situation once the word have been successfully changed (assuming for the sake of discussion that the word can be effectively changed) ? I have always been intrigued by the power of words.
- chimen 6y ago"if the public found out a Gypsy was working in the kitchen, most people would never dine at that restaurant" - I don't dig that, it's a lie. I live just two hundred miles north in Romania and we have our own communities here - bigger even. The reason they don't get hired is because it is always a gamble doing that. They either steal or avoid work whenever possible. Most criminal gangs are by gypsies and most stealing, prostitution or begging in Europe is done by gypsies that left our country or from Bulgaria. Sadly, the entire Europe thinks of Romanians as thief's or beggars due to these people. Don't believe me? Here's a list with some videos them at (work): - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a03ln9aSSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a03ln9aSSk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bqZYCVOgZI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bqZYCVOgZI - https://youtu.be/jgv2DPUItTY?t=660 https://youtu.be/jgv2DPUItTY?t=660 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GivpxPKzGm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GivpxPKzGm4 - https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1229612137060364 https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1229612137060364 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bji47dgDLe4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bji47dgDLe4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhfuaGQhGr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhfuaGQhGr8 - ...hundreds more but you get the point I know you can find videos about thief's on almost any nation out there but, you have to live in one of these countries to be able to talk on the subject. Here's a diva getting booed on the stage for trying to suggest we're discriminating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PymLiIBgQ9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PymLiIBgQ9g We are not racist towards them. Most of the educated and working gypsies have no problems in our country and I would never have issues hiring one - I've hired many designers or programmers but I never had one gypsy come for an interview. I have some very good friends among them but, the vast majority, it is being raised without education or with the general idea that money should be made by whatever means necessary and the "BEST" examples in their communities are always the worst by any other standards other than their own. As a conclusion, stop trying to point fingers at us for not doing what we can to integrate them because they DON'T want to be integrated. Period! They just don't. Our countries do not have to climb. We can't drag them. When they left for France a few years ago you all captured them and sent them back with buses. Each Gypsy received 100 euro for going back to Romania - that's how you climb?
- 1024core 6y ago> The reason they don't get hired is because it is always a gamble doing that. So if you don't let them make an honest living, how the hell will they survive?? You claim they're all thieves and they don't want to be integrated, so you deny them any job prospects. And then you turn around and wonder why they steal!! How else will they feed their families or afford the basic necessities, man? I'm not saying they're all honest people; but if the honest ones are not given a chance, they will have to resort to dishonest means. It takes 2 to tango. You need both sides to make compromises. This whole episode reminds me of how blacks were treated in America. Were it not for WW2, I wonder what the situation of blacks would be like in the USA.
- bootcampwhere 6y agoI would love to (have) see(n) a map of the area. Reading through I kept wonder how the community was arranged and how big it was.
- radu_floricica 6y agoI want to echo what chimen said, with a bit of nuance. There is discrimination, real and pretty strong. But on the other hand it's rational to discriminate - if a group of traditionally dressed roma is entering a shop, you'd better bet the security guard will follow their every step without even bothering to be subtle, and that he's doing this from experience. And walking around in roma neighborhoods as a foreigner is a _very_ chancy activity. Nobody local will even cry for you if you get robbed. The main reason for this state of affairs is roma's traditional reliance on internal law and complete disregard for outsiders and their laws. Coupled with this is a tendency to just not apply morality to whatever you do to outsiders. This makes it very very hard to change their ways from outside - even 40 years of communism barely made a dent. Best strategy I know of is to make sure each individual has full protection of the host nation's laws and support mechanisms, and that they know it. This makes it possible for them to disregard internal laws with less fear of being ostracized. It's a slow strategy, but I know of none quicker. And to end on a brighter note, in the next elections I'll be voting for an independent, who is the newest rising star of local politics. He's a gypsy.
- kazinator 6y agoI'm not a local, but wouldn't eat at a restaurant if it was staffed by people from that specific neighborhood documented in the submitted web page. That's regardless of their ethnic background: they could be milk-white Bulgarians. I would expect them to show up in dirty clothes, and not having bathed in months, and neglect to follow basic hygiene like washing their hands. They would likely perpetrate actions like tasting food and putting the same utensil back into the pot, completely lacking the inhibition of refraining from doing whatever comes naturally.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]