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I have no strong opinions on this other than that it's inevitable at some point. However, a theory: Many of the HN crowd here are quite likely to live in an ur

I have no strong opinions on this other than that it's inevitable at some point. However, a theory: Many of the HN crowd here are quite likely to live in an urban area, in an appartment without a fixed parking space. There is no 'charging at home'. Sure there're a decent number of plugs around - but for _everyone_? Not by a long shot. What this law is basically saying is that there will be no practical way for these people to own a car - not least without significant infrastructure work and public investment (and corresponding political will), which is, not always something you want to bet on. Given the healthy dose of skepticisim anyway - I'm not entirely surprised this is being received with less than universal excitement.

azalemeth 6y ago
I've never found the need to buy a car in my life. I'm 34. I commute everywhere by bicycle, and my partner (who also doesn't own a car) and I get heavy things delivered. It is possible, and, for the sake of the planet, I really think that this is a great thing that we should be celebrating. Most people on the planet live in cities, and I really think that we should try to wean them off fossil fuels.
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  Heavy things delivered means you are contributing to pollution as well as anybody else What's really polluting the atmosphere is not people's cars, it's the constant and unstoppable traffic of goods delivered from country to country for no real reason other than "economy of scale" A friend of mine has asked for an eye pencil replacement the other day because it was delivered of the wrong colour It costed a couple euros and came from Korea They gladly sent another one and picked up the old one For a two euros eye pencil Imagine what the fashion industry produces when it moves the 30 billion pounds of clothes that every year are discarded in UK Not to say that people don't pollute, but that the control should start on who produce the most pollution and also profit from it, not from the last ring of the supply chain
- alibarber 6y ago
  Sure - I lived in London for years and didn't own a car. I also commuted by bicylce and I thought it was great. Sometimes the highlight of my day! But people in general don't like having their options constricted even if it's for the greater good. It's human nature and I think the best ways forward are to get people excited about the electric future. 'In 10 years electric cars will be so good you'll forget we ever bothered with petrol' would probably be a more effective way to get people excited. Unfortunately that'd need to come from a pretty credible source, and they'd get the credit for it, and so in the absence of that - just make this law! It's easy, and who will be around in 10 years (in politics) anyway?... That's why I'm raising my eyebrows a bit at this.
- jaharios 6y ago
  Bikes are perfect for the city,expect when it is raining and when you have kids , yeah giving up cars and kids is the way to save the planet.
iamben 6y ago
Definitely my personal feelings. I couldn't imagine the practicalities of owning an EV in central London. Assuming you're lucky enough to own/rent somewhere with some kind of parking - good luck trying to get them to install charging points. Most of the time it's a struggle to get the windows cleaned. Whilst most of the petrol stations near me are pretty shabby - it's easy enough to get fuel.
- xxpor 6y ago
  >good luck trying to get them to install charging points. Make it mandatory. Done. Either they do it or they shut the parking garage. Both are wins.
  - iamben 6y ago
    The initial developer is probably bankrupt. The management company attempts to pass the charge to the flat owners (through a protracted series of letters), most of whom now live in the countryside because the rent from the London flat pays the mortgage on their 5 bedroom home in the countryside. They spend 2 years dragging out the process; arguing, challenging. None of the renters get to charge their car until about 2037. Yay London :-/
    - xxpor 6y ago
      Is there no way to have a special charge to flat owners in the UK? If it's like the US, it'd be through a HOA for the building. If someone wanted to fight it they'd have to go to court. I could imagine a scheme where a bank lends the HOA the money but then deals with the court since dealing with that is much less of a pain for them than the random building HOA president.
    - _ph_ 6y ago
      That would be a reason to require electric outlets at each parking space a bit earlier than 2030. And of course, not every car is electric in 2030, hopefully only every new car.
GreenWatermelon 6y ago
If you're living in an urban are, then you're better off NOT buying a car and using public transport instead.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  And take 1h 30m for that ride that is done in 30 minutes? No thanks.
- alibarber 6y ago
  But people do still buy cars, I assume voluntarily, so there must be some benefit for them. I live in a urban area and my commute by public transport is twice as long as by car. Yes I know it's not something to be celebrating - but I am definitely and objectively better off by using a car.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

azalemeth 6y ago

I've never found the need to buy a car in my life. I'm 34. I commute everywhere by bicycle, and my partner (who also doesn't own a car) and I get heavy things delivered. It is possible, and, for the sake of the planet, I really think that this is a great thing that we should be celebrating. Most people on the planet live in cities, and I really think that we should try to wean them off fossil fuels.

romanoderoma 6y ago
Heavy things delivered means you are contributing to pollution as well as anybody else What's really polluting the atmosphere is not people's cars, it's the constant and unstoppable traffic of goods delivered from country to country for no real reason other than "economy of scale" A friend of mine has asked for an eye pencil replacement the other day because it was delivered of the wrong colour It costed a couple euros and came from Korea They gladly sent another one and picked up the old one For a two euros eye pencil Imagine what the fashion industry produces when it moves the 30 billion pounds of clothes that every year are discarded in UK Not to say that people don't pollute, but that the control should start on who produce the most pollution and also profit from it, not from the last ring of the supply chain
alibarber 6y ago
Sure - I lived in London for years and didn't own a car. I also commuted by bicylce and I thought it was great. Sometimes the highlight of my day! But people in general don't like having their options constricted even if it's for the greater good. It's human nature and I think the best ways forward are to get people excited about the electric future. 'In 10 years electric cars will be so good you'll forget we ever bothered with petrol' would probably be a more effective way to get people excited. Unfortunately that'd need to come from a pretty credible source, and they'd get the credit for it, and so in the absence of that - just make this law! It's easy, and who will be around in 10 years (in politics) anyway?... That's why I'm raising my eyebrows a bit at this.
jaharios 6y ago
Bikes are perfect for the city,expect when it is raining and when you have kids , yeah giving up cars and kids is the way to save the planet.

iamben 6y ago

Definitely my personal feelings. I couldn't imagine the practicalities of owning an EV in central London. Assuming you're lucky enough to own/rent somewhere with some kind of parking - good luck trying to get them to install charging points. Most of the time it's a struggle to get the windows cleaned. Whilst most of the petrol stations near me are pretty shabby - it's easy enough to get fuel.

xxpor 6y ago
>good luck trying to get them to install charging points. Make it mandatory. Done. Either they do it or they shut the parking garage. Both are wins.
- iamben 6y ago
  The initial developer is probably bankrupt. The management company attempts to pass the charge to the flat owners (through a protracted series of letters), most of whom now live in the countryside because the rent from the London flat pays the mortgage on their 5 bedroom home in the countryside. They spend 2 years dragging out the process; arguing, challenging. None of the renters get to charge their car until about 2037. Yay London :-/
  - xxpor 6y ago
    Is there no way to have a special charge to flat owners in the UK? If it's like the US, it'd be through a HOA for the building. If someone wanted to fight it they'd have to go to court. I could imagine a scheme where a bank lends the HOA the money but then deals with the court since dealing with that is much less of a pain for them than the random building HOA president.
  - _ph_ 6y ago
    That would be a reason to require electric outlets at each parking space a bit earlier than 2030. And of course, not every car is electric in 2030, hopefully only every new car.

GreenWatermelon 6y ago

If you're living in an urban are, then you're better off NOT buying a car and using public transport instead.

pjmlp 6y ago
And take 1h 30m for that ride that is done in 30 minutes? No thanks.
alibarber 6y ago
But people do still buy cars, I assume voluntarily, so there must be some benefit for them. I live in a urban area and my commute by public transport is twice as long as by car. Yes I know it's not something to be celebrating - but I am definitely and objectively better off by using a car.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]