5 ms·

Important point: This isn't an "EV only" law, hybrids will still be allowed. The government does still plan to eventually go EV-only, but not in 2030.

hhs 6y ago
Indeed, the Reuters piece notes, “The FT said the new timetable was not expected to apply to some hybrid cars which use a mixture of electric and fossil fuel propulsion and could still be sold until 2035.”
- ant6n 6y ago
  Odd. Hybrids _are_ diesel or petrol cars.
  - dheera 6y ago
    Yep. Smells like "I am the good guy" political agenda. Environmental bills that accomplish very little. Go all-in on electric for real change.
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      > Smells like "I am the good guy" political agenda Looks like the only realistic plan. All the “fully electric by 2035” plans that hardcore environmentalists love to pass have zero chance of going into effect.
      - jes5199 6y ago
        2035 is fifteen years from now, and good EVs are competative with ICE vehicles right now. I don’t see how that’s unrealistic
        tomp 6y ago
        Which EV is competitive? Even the best have lower driving range, longer charging times, much more expensive and cold in the winter. I’d love to buy an EV but I can get a decent petrol/diesel car for 30k EUR and no comparable EV.
        petre 6y ago
        The problem is lack if EV infrastructure. And good luck to you if you live in the Outer Hebrides.
        tlb 6y ago
        What infrastructure is missing? People's homes have electricity. And the longest road trip you can do in the Outer Hebrides (Rodel to Ness) is 80 miles, so there's no obvious need for mid-way charging stations.
        petre 6y ago
        Not if you live in an apartment building.
        dheera 6y ago
        Install charging in every apartment parking space. Mandate it. Fund it. It will save the country trillions from lost GDP due to climate change, if GDP is what they care about.
        crististm 6y ago
        Apparently people consider that things get done on this planet by 'mandating' or 'enforcing' a set of rules, procedures or outcomes. On _others_. I guess the jokes on me because I thought that people, society in general negotiate on important matters. Is my observation wrong or are you reading me as only condescending, facetious, luddite, troll?
        6y ago
    - goatinaboat 6y ago
      Yep. Smells like "I am the good guy" political agenda. Environmental bills that accomplish very little. Go all-in on electric for real change. There is absolutely not a chance that the UK could have EV charging infrastructure equivalent to the current network of filling stations in place by 2030. Hybrids can be filled as normal, operate on petrol on motorways and self-charge for use in town.
      - brianwawok 6y ago
        95% of BEV charging happens at home. UK has a national power grid. The big part is already done. The number of super chargers you need in public places per car is pretty low. Can’t imagine with 100% saturation you would even need 10% of the gas station population to serve the country.
        goatinaboat 6y ago
        95% of BEV charging happens at home. Presently happens at home - for those with off-street parking. Plugging in and charging overnight makes a lot of sense for those that a) do have that and b) don't do long enough trips to need to charge elsewhere. But that leaves out an awful lot of people. And EV ranges aren't nearly as long as the manufacturers quote* in any but ideal conditions with a single occupant and no luggage. So filling stations will still be needed and they will all need superchargers. * Yes neither are ICE's but this isn't a problem for anyone because there are petrol stations everywhere
        sideshowb 6y ago
        I'm all in favour but would quite like to know how much spare generating and grid capacity we have, and what the demand will be if all cars go electric. I get the impression we're not building new power stations fast enough but would like to know more.
    - tobylane 6y ago
      > Used cars, which were on the road before April 2017 and produce low levels of carbon dioxide emissions (the limit is 100g/km CO2 or less), continue to be taxed under the old system and retain their tax-free status, whether powered by petrol, diesel or electricity. The UK is making sensible small steps. That quoted rule has ended and now only electric cars are exempt from that tax. We’ve had high fuel taxes for a while, though frozen lately for poor reasons, rather than the planned increases. https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/economical-cars/low-emission-cars/333/best-tax-exempt-cars https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/economical-cars/low-emission-...
  - M2Ys4U 6y ago
    Hybrids use _way_ less fuel than pure-ICE vehicles though; I was amazed at how less frequently I had to fill up my hybrid compared to my petrol car just from the ERS. IIRC, the original ban was going to apply to hybrids too - in 2035 - but now the government are bringing the ban forwards by 5 years for pure-ICE.
    - petre 6y ago
      Depends on the size of the battery and electric drive unit. Suzuki sells start/stop hybrids with a small battery where the electric motor is basically just an ICE starter. Also depends on how you drive it.
    - _ph_ 6y ago
      Unfortunately, this isn't generally true. There are great hybrids like the Toyota HSD system, which do save some fuel - still about 4 liters per 100km - but a lot of the hybrids are just for compliance and when run on their main engine, they don't save fuel, sometimes even use more as they are dragging all the electric stuff with them.
throw0101a 6y ago
Honestly, hybrids are a quicker win. IMHO if governments want to meet their Paris Accord targets they should be focusing subsidies on getting the price of hybrids down to the level of the same model as a non-hybrid. Reduces emissions in traffic and lights and helps build out charging infrastructure with plug-ins without an "over" reliance on stations. Certainly also encourage BEVs, but I think an easy-is stepping stone is a needed given climate change.
- grecy 6y ago
  hybrids were always a stop-gap technology on the path to full electric. With the price of batteries dropping so rapidly, hybrids make less and less sense. I'll wager no manufacturer will be making them in a couple of years.
  - toast0 6y ago
    Hybrids are mechanically more complex than either an all ICE or an all electric car, so that's not ideal. On the other hand, they have better range than either, generally, and keep the quick fillup time of an ICE, with optional short trip charging depending on equipment. Additionally range is good at slow speeds where electric wins, and at high speeds where ICE wins. When the battery placement isn't criminally stupid (like c-max energi that guts the rear storage), the end result is a best of both situation.
- xiphias2 6y ago
  Hybrids are the reason CO2 emissions increased in EU. EU offered so much incentives in the last years that companies bought them, but never charge them. They emit 400% of the CO2 quota that was allocated for the cars, it's the new type of diesel cheating that car companies use. I'm not against hybrids of course, just against giving incentives to buy them.
- _ph_ 6y ago
  Hybrids are no win at all. They would have been a great idea, of more companies had followed the lead of Toyota, which is selling the Prius since 1998. At best, hybrids reduce the CO2 produces somewhat. But many hybrids are designed for pure compliance, not saving CO2 in real world usage. But in any case, we don't need to reduce the CO2 produced by cars, we need to eliminate it entirely. Society needs to get CO2-neutral urgently, and cars are actually the low hanging fruit as perfectly nice electric cars are already being sold. In contrast, we have very little ideas what to do about flying for example, except use precious bio or synthetic fuels.
gambiting 6y ago
I thought they were only allowed under the earlier, 2035 target, but when the target got moved to 2030 then the exception for hybrids disappeared as well? Or have they changed their plans again?
- adrianmonk 6y ago
  The article says hybrids can be sold until 2035.

hhs 6y ago

Indeed, the Reuters piece notes, “The FT said the new timetable was not expected to apply to some hybrid cars which use a mixture of electric and fossil fuel propulsion and could still be sold until 2035.”

ant6n 6y ago
Odd. Hybrids _are_ diesel or petrol cars.
- dheera 6y ago
  Yep. Smells like "I am the good guy" political agenda. Environmental bills that accomplish very little. Go all-in on electric for real change.
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > Smells like "I am the good guy" political agenda Looks like the only realistic plan. All the “fully electric by 2035” plans that hardcore environmentalists love to pass have zero chance of going into effect.
    - jes5199 6y ago
      2035 is fifteen years from now, and good EVs are competative with ICE vehicles right now. I don’t see how that’s unrealistic
      - tomp 6y ago
        Which EV is competitive? Even the best have lower driving range, longer charging times, much more expensive and cold in the winter. I’d love to buy an EV but I can get a decent petrol/diesel car for 30k EUR and no comparable EV.
      - petre 6y ago
        The problem is lack if EV infrastructure. And good luck to you if you live in the Outer Hebrides.
        tlb 6y ago
        What infrastructure is missing? People's homes have electricity. And the longest road trip you can do in the Outer Hebrides (Rodel to Ness) is 80 miles, so there's no obvious need for mid-way charging stations.
        petre 6y ago
        Not if you live in an apartment building.
        dheera 6y ago
        Install charging in every apartment parking space. Mandate it. Fund it. It will save the country trillions from lost GDP due to climate change, if GDP is what they care about.
        crististm 6y ago
        Apparently people consider that things get done on this planet by 'mandating' or 'enforcing' a set of rules, procedures or outcomes. On _others_. I guess the jokes on me because I thought that people, society in general negotiate on important matters. Is my observation wrong or are you reading me as only condescending, facetious, luddite, troll?
        6y ago
  - goatinaboat 6y ago
    Yep. Smells like "I am the good guy" political agenda. Environmental bills that accomplish very little. Go all-in on electric for real change. There is absolutely not a chance that the UK could have EV charging infrastructure equivalent to the current network of filling stations in place by 2030. Hybrids can be filled as normal, operate on petrol on motorways and self-charge for use in town.
    - brianwawok 6y ago
      95% of BEV charging happens at home. UK has a national power grid. The big part is already done. The number of super chargers you need in public places per car is pretty low. Can’t imagine with 100% saturation you would even need 10% of the gas station population to serve the country.
      - goatinaboat 6y ago
        95% of BEV charging happens at home. Presently happens at home - for those with off-street parking. Plugging in and charging overnight makes a lot of sense for those that a) do have that and b) don't do long enough trips to need to charge elsewhere. But that leaves out an awful lot of people. And EV ranges aren't nearly as long as the manufacturers quote* in any but ideal conditions with a single occupant and no luggage. So filling stations will still be needed and they will all need superchargers. * Yes neither are ICE's but this isn't a problem for anyone because there are petrol stations everywhere
      - sideshowb 6y ago
        I'm all in favour but would quite like to know how much spare generating and grid capacity we have, and what the demand will be if all cars go electric. I get the impression we're not building new power stations fast enough but would like to know more.
  - tobylane 6y ago
    > Used cars, which were on the road before April 2017 and produce low levels of carbon dioxide emissions (the limit is 100g/km CO2 or less), continue to be taxed under the old system and retain their tax-free status, whether powered by petrol, diesel or electricity. The UK is making sensible small steps. That quoted rule has ended and now only electric cars are exempt from that tax. We’ve had high fuel taxes for a while, though frozen lately for poor reasons, rather than the planned increases. https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/economical-cars/low-emission-cars/333/best-tax-exempt-cars https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/economical-cars/low-emission-...
- M2Ys4U 6y ago
  Hybrids use _way_ less fuel than pure-ICE vehicles though; I was amazed at how less frequently I had to fill up my hybrid compared to my petrol car just from the ERS. IIRC, the original ban was going to apply to hybrids too - in 2035 - but now the government are bringing the ban forwards by 5 years for pure-ICE.
  - petre 6y ago
    Depends on the size of the battery and electric drive unit. Suzuki sells start/stop hybrids with a small battery where the electric motor is basically just an ICE starter. Also depends on how you drive it.
  - _ph_ 6y ago
    Unfortunately, this isn't generally true. There are great hybrids like the Toyota HSD system, which do save some fuel - still about 4 liters per 100km - but a lot of the hybrids are just for compliance and when run on their main engine, they don't save fuel, sometimes even use more as they are dragging all the electric stuff with them.

throw0101a 6y ago

Honestly, hybrids are a quicker win. IMHO if governments want to meet their Paris Accord targets they should be focusing subsidies on getting the price of hybrids down to the level of the same model as a non-hybrid. Reduces emissions in traffic and lights and helps build out charging infrastructure with plug-ins without an "over" reliance on stations. Certainly also encourage BEVs, but I think an easy-is stepping stone is a needed given climate change.

grecy 6y ago
hybrids were always a stop-gap technology on the path to full electric. With the price of batteries dropping so rapidly, hybrids make less and less sense. I'll wager no manufacturer will be making them in a couple of years.
- toast0 6y ago
  Hybrids are mechanically more complex than either an all ICE or an all electric car, so that's not ideal. On the other hand, they have better range than either, generally, and keep the quick fillup time of an ICE, with optional short trip charging depending on equipment. Additionally range is good at slow speeds where electric wins, and at high speeds where ICE wins. When the battery placement isn't criminally stupid (like c-max energi that guts the rear storage), the end result is a best of both situation.
xiphias2 6y ago
Hybrids are the reason CO2 emissions increased in EU. EU offered so much incentives in the last years that companies bought them, but never charge them. They emit 400% of the CO2 quota that was allocated for the cars, it's the new type of diesel cheating that car companies use. I'm not against hybrids of course, just against giving incentives to buy them.
_ph_ 6y ago
Hybrids are no win at all. They would have been a great idea, of more companies had followed the lead of Toyota, which is selling the Prius since 1998. At best, hybrids reduce the CO2 produces somewhat. But many hybrids are designed for pure compliance, not saving CO2 in real world usage. But in any case, we don't need to reduce the CO2 produced by cars, we need to eliminate it entirely. Society needs to get CO2-neutral urgently, and cars are actually the low hanging fruit as perfectly nice electric cars are already being sold. In contrast, we have very little ideas what to do about flying for example, except use precious bio or synthetic fuels.

gambiting 6y ago

I thought they were only allowed under the earlier, 2035 target, but when the target got moved to 2030 then the exception for hybrids disappeared as well? Or have they changed their plans again?

adrianmonk 6y ago
The article says hybrids can be sold until 2035.