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> There is a big oversupply of people for the junior-mid level data science jobs. Honest question is there any field where that isn’t true right now? Seems lik

> There is a big oversupply of people for the junior-mid level data science jobs. Honest question is there any field where that isn’t true right now? Seems like there are no junior jobs in any sector.

mettamage 6y ago
I live in Amsterdam. What I'm seeing here is that the security field is lagging behind the data science / web dev field. It's not easy to find junior jobs, but a lot easier than data science / web dev. The most fun example that I currently have is that my LinkedIn profile is super wide. I market myself as a generalist software dev, because that's what I am. I'm not a specialist and I've dabbled in almost everything. Naturally, no recruiter contacts me because of that. But you know who does? A European company looking for a reverse engineer. I found it quite surprising that they were capable of reading that I have some IDA Pro experience, because it's in the fine print of my profile and not at all readable when you skim it.
- kranner 6y ago
  > I found it quite surprising that they were capable of reading that I have some IDA Pro experience, because it's in the fine print of my profile and not at all readable when you skim it. Wouldn't searching profiles for "IDA Pro" find it?
  - mettamage 6y ago
    I guess, but I wouldn't be on the top of the list as I am mentioning it once and there's also a lot more mobile and web buzz words on my profile.
    - jlokier 6y ago
      They don't read your profile at first. Sometimes they don't even read it at all before contacting you. They search for keywords, and rely on the search algorithm prioritisation and a good looking one-line summary of your profile to pick you out of pages of search results. They'll find your "IDA Pro" if that's in the list of terms they are looking for, no matter how deeply it's buried in the description of your past jobs. If they don't read your profile they might not even know that it's buried.
deng 6y ago
German here. From my perspective it's hard to find - embedded systems programmers, meaning people who know real-time systems, have good C/C++ knowledge, know their way around the Linux kernel and are also able to do basic things with a scope. - good(!) C++ programmers in general - people who know devops and software development infrastructure C++ might not be sexy, but there's a vast amount of legacy software out there which is not going away anytime soon.
- jeffreygoesto 6y ago
  That is true. I found that for embedded C++ to be successful, you need to have some good (excellent sometimes was harmful, but that's a different topic) C++ _as well as_ good domain and optimization skills. It's a combination that is more and more scarce. C++ tends to be used in domains where size and speed matter. You need to know what the compiler and machine will do with your code to be fast. And what's more, only the domain knowledge will let you pick the right data structures to be fast and compact in the first place. And there are a lot of foot guns around... ;-)
  - wallscratch 6y ago
    > I found that for embedded C++ to be successful, you need to have some good (excellent sometimes was harmful, but that's a different topic) Why were excellent C++ skills sometimes harmful?
    - jeffreygoesto 6y ago
      First of all, it leaves the team behind if you use features that are too advanced. Makes collaboration hard if you have wildly diverging skills (in both ways). Also, it did in our case take you away so far from the bare metal, that the code was elegant, but slow. It did not play well with our static allocators and allocated/deallocated way too much, especially temporaries. You might i.e. check out talks like [0]. [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NH1Tta7purM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NH1Tta7purM
      - 6y ago
kylestlb 6y ago
one factor here is that 'senior' doesn't really mean anything anymore other than 3+ years of experience.

mettamage 6y ago

I live in Amsterdam. What I'm seeing here is that the security field is lagging behind the data science / web dev field. It's not easy to find junior jobs, but a lot easier than data science / web dev. The most fun example that I currently have is that my LinkedIn profile is super wide. I market myself as a generalist software dev, because that's what I am. I'm not a specialist and I've dabbled in almost everything. Naturally, no recruiter contacts me because of that. But you know who does? A European company looking for a reverse engineer. I found it quite surprising that they were capable of reading that I have some IDA Pro experience, because it's in the fine print of my profile and not at all readable when you skim it.

kranner 6y ago
> I found it quite surprising that they were capable of reading that I have some IDA Pro experience, because it's in the fine print of my profile and not at all readable when you skim it. Wouldn't searching profiles for "IDA Pro" find it?
- mettamage 6y ago
  I guess, but I wouldn't be on the top of the list as I am mentioning it once and there's also a lot more mobile and web buzz words on my profile.
  - jlokier 6y ago
    They don't read your profile at first. Sometimes they don't even read it at all before contacting you. They search for keywords, and rely on the search algorithm prioritisation and a good looking one-line summary of your profile to pick you out of pages of search results. They'll find your "IDA Pro" if that's in the list of terms they are looking for, no matter how deeply it's buried in the description of your past jobs. If they don't read your profile they might not even know that it's buried.

deng 6y ago

German here. From my perspective it's hard to find - embedded systems programmers, meaning people who know real-time systems, have good C/C++ knowledge, know their way around the Linux kernel and are also able to do basic things with a scope. - good(!) C++ programmers in general - people who know devops and software development infrastructure C++ might not be sexy, but there's a vast amount of legacy software out there which is not going away anytime soon.

jeffreygoesto 6y ago
That is true. I found that for embedded C++ to be successful, you need to have some good (excellent sometimes was harmful, but that's a different topic) C++ _as well as_ good domain and optimization skills. It's a combination that is more and more scarce. C++ tends to be used in domains where size and speed matter. You need to know what the compiler and machine will do with your code to be fast. And what's more, only the domain knowledge will let you pick the right data structures to be fast and compact in the first place. And there are a lot of foot guns around... ;-)
- wallscratch 6y ago
  > I found that for embedded C++ to be successful, you need to have some good (excellent sometimes was harmful, but that's a different topic) Why were excellent C++ skills sometimes harmful?
  - jeffreygoesto 6y ago
    First of all, it leaves the team behind if you use features that are too advanced. Makes collaboration hard if you have wildly diverging skills (in both ways). Also, it did in our case take you away so far from the bare metal, that the code was elegant, but slow. It did not play well with our static allocators and allocated/deallocated way too much, especially temporaries. You might i.e. check out talks like [0]. [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NH1Tta7purM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NH1Tta7purM
    - 6y ago

kylestlb 6y ago

one factor here is that 'senior' doesn't really mean anything anymore other than 3+ years of experience.