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> They also found that when they made a cup out of the stuff and filled it with water heated almost to boiling point, the cup remained intact for more than two

> They also found that when they made a cup out of the stuff and filled it with water heated almost to boiling point, the cup remained intact for more than two hours. Though this is not as long as a plastic cup would last (it would survive indefinitely) it is long enough for all practical purposes. Err, no. A disposable cup that leaks after 2 hours is a horrible product. Disposable cups are at their most useful in the car, and it’s easy for a bit of coffee to be left in a cup for more than a couple of hours.

CobrastanJorji 6y ago
That's a good point, but the world goes through something like half a trillion disposable cups per year. Even if 99% of them are used exclusively to store hot liquids in cars for over two hours, that still leaves 5 billion cups per year that we could usefully replace with these.
- dorgo 6y ago
  Just a little overhead of deciding which type of cup you want and to not forget to keep the melting one out of your car.
  - christophilus 6y ago
    Someone mentioned a silicone sleeve in the cup holder would be a fine solution to this.
seszett 6y ago
To me, drinking in a car is a very American thing and I don't think this would be a problem here. If this product works in most of the world but not the US, it would still be better than using plastic cups everywhere. Although paper cups are already common anyway.
- dawnerd 6y ago
  People drink in their car all over the world, what makes it "very American"?
  - numpad0 6y ago
    I don’t have stats to back me up but are they cup holders or drink holders? Because I think in many parts of the world people mainly put cans and bottles there, than paper cups.
  - montebicyclelo 6y ago
    > A drive-through or drive-thru (a sensational spelling of the word through), is a type of take-out service provided by a business that allows customers to purchase products without leaving their cars. The format was pioneered in the United States in the 1930s by Jordan Martin,but has since spread to other countries. > In 1981, Max Hamburgers opened Northern Europe's first drive-in in Piteå. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive-through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive-through American infrastructure is built around cars, more so than many (/most?) other countries. Towns/cities in Europe are generally built to be walkable.
  - kwhitefoot 6y ago
    At least here in Norway it would be very unusual for a coffee cup to be left in the car and anyway many of those who do drink a lot of coffee on the go use a reusable cup bought from a petrol station that gives you a year of 'free' coffee. See https://www.circlek.no/koppen https://www.circlek.no/koppen for instance.
    - bywaterstreet 6y ago
      That's pretty cool. How much is that? "Costa Coffee" (a UK chain) machines are in lots of petrol stations nowadays, but I'm not aware of any kind of subscription.
      - dmurray 6y ago
        Pret a Manger has a coffee subscription program in the UK, at £20/month. Not quite the same model as petrol stations, but close.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Jolter 6y ago
Sounds like these new cups would be perfectly useful in cafes in non-car-centric communities. Of course a drive-through would not be selling them.
UweSchmidt 6y ago
We need more environmental tech, but we also have to adapt our behaviour a little bit. How can you make something that is degradable in an environmental friendly way, but also last forever? Something has to give.
- techsupporter 6y ago
  > but we also have to adapt our behaviour a little bit And this is what is largely holding us back. "Fear of loss" is a very big deal whenever you talk about large-scale modifications to a system with which people have grown very familiar. People can always find a reason why a particular change "simply cannot work" or "is more trouble than it is worth" or "the benefits are not outweighed by the downsides" or "my use does is not compatible" and so on and so forth. The spectrum is massive. From paper straws to "if you are able and if you live in a place where it is possible, look for ways to not drive so often," lots of people will be in a big hurry to tell you why that flatly cannot be done. As someone who does transit advocacy in a dense city with good transit, it is very frustrating.
  - sfifs 6y ago
    > As someone who does transit advocacy in a dense city with good transit, it is very frustrating. While going a bit off topic, the issue I have seen with advocacy groups is that they focus on solving for the median case (eg. 80% of trips are less than 5km) whereas people usually take decisions that work for them in the edge cases (what if i need to take my ageing dad to the hospital on a rainy night, what if i have to take my kid to a far away school for a competition). To drive real habit change, you have to have good solutions for the edge case - otherwise people will just default to re-using their edge case solution for their median use cases (sunk cost). In the city I live in for example, even 6-7 years ago, it was essentially impossible to find a cab in the rain. I've personally missed a flight due to a sudden downpour. With reliable and massive inventory of ride sharing NOW available where i live, I am comfortable living without a car. In my hometown where my parents live (a smaller city which also has a transit system but poor cab service), I still would not do that.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
intricatedetail 6y ago
Should cars have a coffee tank? Imagine pouring coffee at a stop just like petrol and have dispenser somewhere near driving seat with a mouthpiece.
- nicoburns 6y ago
  I think a reusable coffee cup would be a much simpler solution.
- christophilus 6y ago
  It could even come with an IV drip. Then you could eat and get caffeinated at the same time.
- notjtrig 6y ago
  A Mercedes-Benz Keurig partnership perhaps.
  - m-p-3 6y ago
    Then they'll stall the car with their DRM because you bought generic coffee.
Angostura 6y ago
I'm not sure existing paper cups would fair much better, would they?
- djrogers 6y ago
  The millions of drivers with disposable coffee cups in their cars would disagree.
  - MajorBee 6y ago
    Most disposable coffee cups (the kind you'd find in the Starbucks of the world) have a plastic lining (polyethylene) that's responsible for the cup not devolving into a soggy mess with hot liquids. Although it appears that replacing the plastic with wax might make it more recyclable/compostable.
GekkePrutser 6y ago
But a cup of water heated to the boiling point would long have cooled off by the 2 hours, so would this still count then?
- djrogers 6y ago
  The article said nothing about maintaining a boil in the test cups - presumably the water in the cups under test cooled as well, no?
  - GekkePrutser 6y ago
    Well that's exactly what I'm asking. PLA is known to get soft at near-boiling temps. Cups do start leaking and generally slump into a puddle. But this is purely an effect of the heat, it can handle the water just fine if it's cold. This is unmodified PLA so I wonder if this isn't the same with the 'modified' stuff, or if the added fibres get soft when they get wet like paper.
culopatin 6y ago
I don’t think it would be the end of luxury if we had to finish our drinks within 2hs. If it had always been that cups leak after 2hs, this wouldn’t be a problem or cars would be designed to make the cup holders easy to wash.

CobrastanJorji 6y ago

That's a good point, but the world goes through something like half a trillion disposable cups per year. Even if 99% of them are used exclusively to store hot liquids in cars for over two hours, that still leaves 5 billion cups per year that we could usefully replace with these.

dorgo 6y ago
Just a little overhead of deciding which type of cup you want and to not forget to keep the melting one out of your car.
- christophilus 6y ago
  Someone mentioned a silicone sleeve in the cup holder would be a fine solution to this.

seszett 6y ago

To me, drinking in a car is a very American thing and I don't think this would be a problem here. If this product works in most of the world but not the US, it would still be better than using plastic cups everywhere. Although paper cups are already common anyway.

dawnerd 6y ago
People drink in their car all over the world, what makes it "very American"?
- numpad0 6y ago
  I don’t have stats to back me up but are they cup holders or drink holders? Because I think in many parts of the world people mainly put cans and bottles there, than paper cups.
- montebicyclelo 6y ago
  > A drive-through or drive-thru (a sensational spelling of the word through), is a type of take-out service provided by a business that allows customers to purchase products without leaving their cars. The format was pioneered in the United States in the 1930s by Jordan Martin,but has since spread to other countries. > In 1981, Max Hamburgers opened Northern Europe's first drive-in in Piteå. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive-through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive-through American infrastructure is built around cars, more so than many (/most?) other countries. Towns/cities in Europe are generally built to be walkable.
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  At least here in Norway it would be very unusual for a coffee cup to be left in the car and anyway many of those who do drink a lot of coffee on the go use a reusable cup bought from a petrol station that gives you a year of 'free' coffee. See https://www.circlek.no/koppen https://www.circlek.no/koppen for instance.
  - bywaterstreet 6y ago
    That's pretty cool. How much is that? "Costa Coffee" (a UK chain) machines are in lots of petrol stations nowadays, but I'm not aware of any kind of subscription.
    - dmurray 6y ago
      Pret a Manger has a coffee subscription program in the UK, at £20/month. Not quite the same model as petrol stations, but close.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Jolter 6y ago

Sounds like these new cups would be perfectly useful in cafes in non-car-centric communities. Of course a drive-through would not be selling them.

UweSchmidt 6y ago

We need more environmental tech, but we also have to adapt our behaviour a little bit. How can you make something that is degradable in an environmental friendly way, but also last forever? Something has to give.

techsupporter 6y ago
> but we also have to adapt our behaviour a little bit And this is what is largely holding us back. "Fear of loss" is a very big deal whenever you talk about large-scale modifications to a system with which people have grown very familiar. People can always find a reason why a particular change "simply cannot work" or "is more trouble than it is worth" or "the benefits are not outweighed by the downsides" or "my use does is not compatible" and so on and so forth. The spectrum is massive. From paper straws to "if you are able and if you live in a place where it is possible, look for ways to not drive so often," lots of people will be in a big hurry to tell you why that flatly cannot be done. As someone who does transit advocacy in a dense city with good transit, it is very frustrating.
- sfifs 6y ago
  > As someone who does transit advocacy in a dense city with good transit, it is very frustrating. While going a bit off topic, the issue I have seen with advocacy groups is that they focus on solving for the median case (eg. 80% of trips are less than 5km) whereas people usually take decisions that work for them in the edge cases (what if i need to take my ageing dad to the hospital on a rainy night, what if i have to take my kid to a far away school for a competition). To drive real habit change, you have to have good solutions for the edge case - otherwise people will just default to re-using their edge case solution for their median use cases (sunk cost). In the city I live in for example, even 6-7 years ago, it was essentially impossible to find a cab in the rain. I've personally missed a flight due to a sudden downpour. With reliable and massive inventory of ride sharing NOW available where i live, I am comfortable living without a car. In my hometown where my parents live (a smaller city which also has a transit system but poor cab service), I still would not do that.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

intricatedetail 6y ago

Should cars have a coffee tank? Imagine pouring coffee at a stop just like petrol and have dispenser somewhere near driving seat with a mouthpiece.

nicoburns 6y ago
I think a reusable coffee cup would be a much simpler solution.
christophilus 6y ago
It could even come with an IV drip. Then you could eat and get caffeinated at the same time.
notjtrig 6y ago
A Mercedes-Benz Keurig partnership perhaps.
- m-p-3 6y ago
  Then they'll stall the car with their DRM because you bought generic coffee.

Angostura 6y ago

I'm not sure existing paper cups would fair much better, would they?

djrogers 6y ago
The millions of drivers with disposable coffee cups in their cars would disagree.
- MajorBee 6y ago
  Most disposable coffee cups (the kind you'd find in the Starbucks of the world) have a plastic lining (polyethylene) that's responsible for the cup not devolving into a soggy mess with hot liquids. Although it appears that replacing the plastic with wax might make it more recyclable/compostable.

GekkePrutser 6y ago

But a cup of water heated to the boiling point would long have cooled off by the 2 hours, so would this still count then?

djrogers 6y ago
The article said nothing about maintaining a boil in the test cups - presumably the water in the cups under test cooled as well, no?
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Well that's exactly what I'm asking. PLA is known to get soft at near-boiling temps. Cups do start leaking and generally slump into a puddle. But this is purely an effect of the heat, it can handle the water just fine if it's cold. This is unmodified PLA so I wonder if this isn't the same with the 'modified' stuff, or if the added fibres get soft when they get wet like paper.

culopatin 6y ago

I don’t think it would be the end of luxury if we had to finish our drinks within 2hs. If it had always been that cups leak after 2hs, this wouldn’t be a problem or cars would be designed to make the cup holders easy to wash.