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This is a kind and thoughtful reply. I would push back on the notion that there has to be a cause for depression. Maybe there is, but it can lead to the danger

by tbenst 6y ago

This is a kind and thoughtful reply. I would push back on the notion that there has to be a cause for depression. Maybe there is, but it can lead to the dangerous conclusion that it’s somehow one’s fault, when it’s actually a maladaptive behavioral state; a disease. Fully agree with your advice to talk to a professional.

proverbialbunny 6y ago
Thanks. I see how that could be a concern. To address it, there can be causality without fault. Fault is a kind of blame. Blame is when you take out a timeline and put your finger down on an arbitrary part and say, "It's because of this." and fault is taking that arbitrary point and reducing the event down into actors by saying, "It's because of you everything went wrong." Looking closely, fault provides no benefit. You can grow and improve by looking at causality. You can learn why someone did what they did and learn from that, which is far more beneficial than the overly reductionist fault. Fault as a default is a lazy way of thinking. Instead we can see the ignorance in ones decision, or the defensiveness in ones decision when they assume another was being harmful to them (eg arguing or retaliation), or we can see the short sighted selfishness in some rare situations (eg, narcissism). Fault is not necessary. It's a hindrance towards a higher resolution view and from that greater awareness comes greater learning capacity, a heightened wisdom, and possibly even heightened intelligence.
- Spoom 6y ago
  There are scenarios where there is not a clear cause that is within the person's control. Granted, I think your suggestions are great places to start, and helpful for many. That said, some cases of depression cannot be effectively treated without therapy or medication, and I think it's a bit... incomplete to suggest otherwise.
  - proverbialbunny 6y ago
    No one knows that until they've exhausted other options. Hope is not a bad thing, unless you want to sit around and do nothing with your life and feel terrible. To be concerned with the impossible is a symptom and a cause of depression, called learned helplessness.
Pokepokalypse 6y ago
That's true, and it's a standard grief-mechanism to try to look for a cause. Especially people with an analytical personality. Their go-to emotional coping mechanism for bad feelings can become to try to analyzed and problem-solve. And while you can do that if your depression has an obvious cause. . . there are tons of people who are depressed for no obvious reason - OR - there is no way to get out of the situation that's causing it. The solution in those cases is to not try to solve it, but instead to let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions. It's difficult because the emotional part of the brain does NOT have the ability to use language. It evolved hundreds of millions of years ago, and is the deepest part of our central nervous system, and absolutely necessary for our survival. It can not be shut off or ignored. And in the case of depression, it may or may not be "normal" - but it is doing it's job.
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
  >The solution in those cases is to not try to solve it, but instead to let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions. It's difficult because the emotional part of the brain does NOT have the ability to use language. It evolved hundreds of millions of years ago, and is the deepest part of our central nervous system, and absolutely necessary for our survival. It can not be shut off or ignored. And in the case of depression, it may or may not be "normal" - but it is doing it's job. If you try to fight stress (which masquerades itself as problem-solving) it will create more stress. When you're okay in the present moment -- you've let go and accepted how you feel through recognizing the stress is temporary like a rain cloud; it will go away without doing anything -- you can passively and non-interactively observe what is going on, which is the beginning of learning. This learning then turns into answers or at first something to talk about with a therapist. Therapy can help quite a bit with this one. This process of passively observing in a relaxed state no matter how bad you feel, is called meditation, and it's what you're talking about, "let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions". >And while you can do that if your depression has an obvious cause. . . there are tons of people who are depressed for no obvious reason - OR - there is no way to get out of the situation that's causing it. That's not really true though. The high majority (88%) of people who go in for CBT therapy are cured from their depression in under 3 months, and of the majority who do not, the largest group is avoidant of psychological work. Yes, there is a small subset of incurable depression. The current theory is it has to do with ones gut biome, but those are estimated to be around 1% of people with depression, and for the majority of those people antidepressants do nothing. They have this constant stomach ache. However, those people can still get benefit by learning how to deal with the situation and live a happy and healthy life. Eg, changing diet can remove many of the symptoms. Calling it depression is even somewhat controversial, because of how different it is from all of the other kinds of depression. People have yet to realize how far modern psychology has come, in part because most psychologists today practice an ancient form that barely, if at all, helps.
sincarne 6y ago
Well said regarding “cause.” Depression often has a trigger, but that is separate from a cause. The trigger-and a pandemic is a great one-is just the thing that exacerbates an existing, possibly dormant, condition.

by tbenst 6y ago

proverbialbunny 6y ago

Thanks. I see how that could be a concern. To address it, there can be causality without fault. Fault is a kind of blame. Blame is when you take out a timeline and put your finger down on an arbitrary part and say, "It's because of this." and fault is taking that arbitrary point and reducing the event down into actors by saying, "It's because of you everything went wrong." Looking closely, fault provides no benefit. You can grow and improve by looking at causality. You can learn why someone did what they did and learn from that, which is far more beneficial than the overly reductionist fault. Fault as a default is a lazy way of thinking. Instead we can see the ignorance in ones decision, or the defensiveness in ones decision when they assume another was being harmful to them (eg arguing or retaliation), or we can see the short sighted selfishness in some rare situations (eg, narcissism). Fault is not necessary. It's a hindrance towards a higher resolution view and from that greater awareness comes greater learning capacity, a heightened wisdom, and possibly even heightened intelligence.

Spoom 6y ago
There are scenarios where there is not a clear cause that is within the person's control. Granted, I think your suggestions are great places to start, and helpful for many. That said, some cases of depression cannot be effectively treated without therapy or medication, and I think it's a bit... incomplete to suggest otherwise.
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
  No one knows that until they've exhausted other options. Hope is not a bad thing, unless you want to sit around and do nothing with your life and feel terrible. To be concerned with the impossible is a symptom and a cause of depression, called learned helplessness.

Pokepokalypse 6y ago

That's true, and it's a standard grief-mechanism to try to look for a cause. Especially people with an analytical personality. Their go-to emotional coping mechanism for bad feelings can become to try to analyzed and problem-solve. And while you can do that if your depression has an obvious cause. . . there are tons of people who are depressed for no obvious reason - OR - there is no way to get out of the situation that's causing it. The solution in those cases is to not try to solve it, but instead to let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions. It's difficult because the emotional part of the brain does NOT have the ability to use language. It evolved hundreds of millions of years ago, and is the deepest part of our central nervous system, and absolutely necessary for our survival. It can not be shut off or ignored. And in the case of depression, it may or may not be "normal" - but it is doing it's job.

proverbialbunny 6y ago
>The solution in those cases is to not try to solve it, but instead to let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions. It's difficult because the emotional part of the brain does NOT have the ability to use language. It evolved hundreds of millions of years ago, and is the deepest part of our central nervous system, and absolutely necessary for our survival. It can not be shut off or ignored. And in the case of depression, it may or may not be "normal" - but it is doing it's job. If you try to fight stress (which masquerades itself as problem-solving) it will create more stress. When you're okay in the present moment -- you've let go and accepted how you feel through recognizing the stress is temporary like a rain cloud; it will go away without doing anything -- you can passively and non-interactively observe what is going on, which is the beginning of learning. This learning then turns into answers or at first something to talk about with a therapist. Therapy can help quite a bit with this one. This process of passively observing in a relaxed state no matter how bad you feel, is called meditation, and it's what you're talking about, "let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions". >And while you can do that if your depression has an obvious cause. . . there are tons of people who are depressed for no obvious reason - OR - there is no way to get out of the situation that's causing it. That's not really true though. The high majority (88%) of people who go in for CBT therapy are cured from their depression in under 3 months, and of the majority who do not, the largest group is avoidant of psychological work. Yes, there is a small subset of incurable depression. The current theory is it has to do with ones gut biome, but those are estimated to be around 1% of people with depression, and for the majority of those people antidepressants do nothing. They have this constant stomach ache. However, those people can still get benefit by learning how to deal with the situation and live a happy and healthy life. Eg, changing diet can remove many of the symptoms. Calling it depression is even somewhat controversial, because of how different it is from all of the other kinds of depression. People have yet to realize how far modern psychology has come, in part because most psychologists today practice an ancient form that barely, if at all, helps.

sincarne 6y ago

Well said regarding “cause.” Depression often has a trigger, but that is separate from a cause. The trigger-and a pandemic is a great one-is just the thing that exacerbates an existing, possibly dormant, condition.