6 ms·

Even if they were using encryption, it was probably the kind the US government can very easily break.

by rms 15y ago

JonnieCache 15y ago
What exactly do you mean here? ROT13? Some sort of crazy arabic version of pig latin? Just because they have DARPA doesn't mean the americans can just waltz past elliptic-curve cyphers. EDIT: Unless you mean the 'give me the key or I'll fetch the powerdrill' kind of encryption breaking, in which case, fair point.
- JoachimSchipper 15y ago
  Rubber hose crypto doesn't work on corpses. I was actually quite surprised that they didn't try/manage to get more people alive...
  - lucasjung 15y ago
    They were more concerned about keeping the American operators alive. When you're going after a zealous nutjob who welcomes death and seeks only to take as many others as possible with him, capture becomes significantly more dangerous than killing. The SEALs were mostly likely briefed that they were to attempt capture but not to endanger any of their team members for that purpose. The reports I read stated that he was offered a chance to surrender but declined. Since UBL was holding an AK and a human shield at the time, the SEAL who cornered him didn't waste any time going to "plan B."
    - michaelcampbell 15y ago
      > When you're going after a zealous nutjob who welcomes death and seeks only to take as many others as possible with him, ... What you say is 100% true, but if history is any guide, zealous nutjob LEADERS have their MINIONS take as many with THEM as they can. The leaders, oddly, need to stay and suffer on this mortal plane.
      - JoachimSchipper 15y ago
        This has happened, but Osama - who clearly was a capable and inspiring man - sacrificed a life of mostly carefree luxury for caves, manhunts, etc. I'm not saying he was not crazy or entirely free of being corrupted by his position, but it seems likely that he actually believed what he said he believed - and even if he didn't go out and blow himself up, he was probably aware of the likely consequences of his actions. (Evading capture in Afghanistan was quite a feat/lucky.)
    - michaelcampbell 15y ago
      > Since UBL was holding an AK and a human shield at the time, Was it Osama using the woman? I read it was "one of the fighters", but not Osama himself. (pause) Most news outlets now are reporting that the woman may have been simply in the line of fire, and not being used as a shield for anyone. We may never know.
crocowhile 15y ago
At a certain point they were using proper algorhytms but not regular pgp because they would not trust american software http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/02/mujahideen_secr_1.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/02/mujahideen_sec...
16s 15y ago
News reports claim that the FBI has said that they can not crack TrueCrypt. http://news.techworld.com/security/3228701/fbi-hackers-fail-to-crack-truecrypt/ http://news.techworld.com/security/3228701/fbi-hackers-fail-... Some people argue that they want to encourage the use of certain encryption products (e.g. Clipper chips) while others argue they are being honest about their capabilities being limited in the face of strong encryption.
- JoachimSchipper 15y ago
  To be fair, though, this kind of case would warrant the NSA's attention - and they seem to be much better than the FBI at this kind of thing.
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  What the FBI, and all security services are really interested in, is FUD. This is the same reason why they've never issued a denial about aliens at area 51, the same reason that they make random comments about truecrypt out of the blue, the same reason they've never released all the CCTV footage from the pentagon on 9/11 even though they could, the non denials around ECHELON, HAARP, etc. etc. etc. They'd much prefer people keep wasting energy guessing about the infinite space of "unknown unknowns" than spending time talking about the less titillating abuses that happen in plain sight.
- yid 15y ago
  If I could crack TrueCrypt, and I were the FBI, that's probably something I would say.
lawnchair_larry 15y ago
Probably not. There are enough algorithms that the government cannot break, and most people using encryption use those.
MichaelGG 15y ago
I doubt that. If they were using TrueCrypt, (or hell, even turned on Windows 7 BitLocker), and the machines were not captured turned on (so as to ensure the key isn't in memory), it'd depend on the quality of the passphrase. More likely, hiding out like that, one is probably worried more about physical security and being found and figures that's the highest problem they have, and being found probably means being dead, at which point the value of encryption is slightly less relevant to the user.

Even if they were using encryption, it was probably the kind the US government can very easily break.

by rms 15y ago

Even if they were using encryption, it was probably the kind the US government can very easily break.

What exactly do you mean here? ROT13? Some sort of crazy arabic version of pig latin? Just because they have DARPA doesn't mean the americans can just waltz past elliptic-curve cyphers. EDIT: Unless you mean the 'give me the key or I'll fetch the powerdrill' kind of encryption breaking, in which case, fair point.

JoachimSchipper 15y ago
Rubber hose crypto doesn't work on corpses. I was actually quite surprised that they didn't try/manage to get more people alive...
- lucasjung 15y ago
  They were more concerned about keeping the American operators alive. When you're going after a zealous nutjob who welcomes death and seeks only to take as many others as possible with him, capture becomes significantly more dangerous than killing. The SEALs were mostly likely briefed that they were to attempt capture but not to endanger any of their team members for that purpose. The reports I read stated that he was offered a chance to surrender but declined. Since UBL was holding an AK and a human shield at the time, the SEAL who cornered him didn't waste any time going to "plan B."
  - michaelcampbell 15y ago
    > When you're going after a zealous nutjob who welcomes death and seeks only to take as many others as possible with him, ... What you say is 100% true, but if history is any guide, zealous nutjob LEADERS have their MINIONS take as many with THEM as they can. The leaders, oddly, need to stay and suffer on this mortal plane.
    - JoachimSchipper 15y ago
      This has happened, but Osama - who clearly was a capable and inspiring man - sacrificed a life of mostly carefree luxury for caves, manhunts, etc. I'm not saying he was not crazy or entirely free of being corrupted by his position, but it seems likely that he actually believed what he said he believed - and even if he didn't go out and blow himself up, he was probably aware of the likely consequences of his actions. (Evading capture in Afghanistan was quite a feat/lucky.)
  - michaelcampbell 15y ago
    > Since UBL was holding an AK and a human shield at the time, Was it Osama using the woman? I read it was "one of the fighters", but not Osama himself. (pause) Most news outlets now are reporting that the woman may have been simply in the line of fire, and not being used as a shield for anyone. We may never know.

crocowhile 15y ago

At a certain point they were using proper algorhytms but not regular pgp because they would not trust american software http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/02/mujahideen_secr_1.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/02/mujahideen_sec...

16s 15y ago

News reports claim that the FBI has said that they can not crack TrueCrypt. http://news.techworld.com/security/3228701/fbi-hackers-fail-to-crack-truecrypt/ http://news.techworld.com/security/3228701/fbi-hackers-fail-... Some people argue that they want to encourage the use of certain encryption products (e.g. Clipper chips) while others argue they are being honest about their capabilities being limited in the face of strong encryption.

JoachimSchipper 15y ago
To be fair, though, this kind of case would warrant the NSA's attention - and they seem to be much better than the FBI at this kind of thing.
JonnieCache 15y ago
What the FBI, and all security services are really interested in, is FUD. This is the same reason why they've never issued a denial about aliens at area 51, the same reason that they make random comments about truecrypt out of the blue, the same reason they've never released all the CCTV footage from the pentagon on 9/11 even though they could, the non denials around ECHELON, HAARP, etc. etc. etc. They'd much prefer people keep wasting energy guessing about the infinite space of "unknown unknowns" than spending time talking about the less titillating abuses that happen in plain sight.
yid 15y ago
If I could crack TrueCrypt, and I were the FBI, that's probably something I would say.

lawnchair_larry 15y ago

Probably not. There are enough algorithms that the government cannot break, and most people using encryption use those.

MichaelGG 15y ago

I doubt that. If they were using TrueCrypt, (or hell, even turned on Windows 7 BitLocker), and the machines were not captured turned on (so as to ensure the key isn't in memory), it'd depend on the quality of the passphrase. More likely, hiding out like that, one is probably worried more about physical security and being found and figures that's the highest problem they have, and being found probably means being dead, at which point the value of encryption is slightly less relevant to the user.