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>So is that depression? Yep, but the cause in your case is unknown. For example, it could be work burnout causing it. It could be not going outside that is c

>So is that depression? Yep, but the cause in your case is unknown. For example, it could be work burnout causing it. It could be not going outside that is causing it. It could be not socializing that is causing it. It could be your diet. It could be ... If you can identify the cause you can find a solution. Unfortunately, the best most people have is a shotgun approach where they try a combination of solutions attempting to address every possible cause. When in a depressed state it makes you want to lay down, to do less. It's exhausting and depending on how bad the depression is sleeping seems better. For the majority, doing the exact opposite of how you feel works to get out of that state, which isn't easy for many, so it helps to take it slow. Sometimes just walking around in a circle in your house for 15-20 minutes can sometimes be enough. This can be done without getting dressed or even thinking about it. It can be done while cooking food or going to the bathroom. It's only 15 minutes and for many that is enough exercise to start feeling not drained again. For many today depression can be caused by doing too much instant gratification type activities in your free time, which can cause that feeling drained feeling. I find having a hobby can help a lot, because then you're not bored. I find getting a hobby can be hard. It can come from a need, like being aggravated with something and wanting to improve it, but it also comes as a side effect from socializing with people. People talking about what they've been up to, what they're passionate about, or even what they hate, can all plant seeds of inspiration that can eventually lead to a hobby. So for some the solution to this kind of depression is socializing. And it goes on. This is why talking to a professional (preferably someone who specializes in CBT, but it's not required) can help. It typically only takes a few months of therapy to get out of most kinds of depression.

tbenst 6y ago
This is a kind and thoughtful reply. I would push back on the notion that there has to be a cause for depression. Maybe there is, but it can lead to the dangerous conclusion that it’s somehow one’s fault, when it’s actually a maladaptive behavioral state; a disease. Fully agree with your advice to talk to a professional.
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
  Thanks. I see how that could be a concern. To address it, there can be causality without fault. Fault is a kind of blame. Blame is when you take out a timeline and put your finger down on an arbitrary part and say, "It's because of this." and fault is taking that arbitrary point and reducing the event down into actors by saying, "It's because of you everything went wrong." Looking closely, fault provides no benefit. You can grow and improve by looking at causality. You can learn why someone did what they did and learn from that, which is far more beneficial than the overly reductionist fault. Fault as a default is a lazy way of thinking. Instead we can see the ignorance in ones decision, or the defensiveness in ones decision when they assume another was being harmful to them (eg arguing or retaliation), or we can see the short sighted selfishness in some rare situations (eg, narcissism). Fault is not necessary. It's a hindrance towards a higher resolution view and from that greater awareness comes greater learning capacity, a heightened wisdom, and possibly even heightened intelligence.
  - Spoom 6y ago
    There are scenarios where there is not a clear cause that is within the person's control. Granted, I think your suggestions are great places to start, and helpful for many. That said, some cases of depression cannot be effectively treated without therapy or medication, and I think it's a bit... incomplete to suggest otherwise.
    - proverbialbunny 6y ago
      No one knows that until they've exhausted other options. Hope is not a bad thing, unless you want to sit around and do nothing with your life and feel terrible. To be concerned with the impossible is a symptom and a cause of depression, called learned helplessness.
- Pokepokalypse 6y ago
  That's true, and it's a standard grief-mechanism to try to look for a cause. Especially people with an analytical personality. Their go-to emotional coping mechanism for bad feelings can become to try to analyzed and problem-solve. And while you can do that if your depression has an obvious cause. . . there are tons of people who are depressed for no obvious reason - OR - there is no way to get out of the situation that's causing it. The solution in those cases is to not try to solve it, but instead to let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions. It's difficult because the emotional part of the brain does NOT have the ability to use language. It evolved hundreds of millions of years ago, and is the deepest part of our central nervous system, and absolutely necessary for our survival. It can not be shut off or ignored. And in the case of depression, it may or may not be "normal" - but it is doing it's job.
suifbwish 6y ago
Great advice. I would add that another strategy that has been useful to many is that when you are feeling negative emotions stirring up uncontrollably, it’s important to remember they aren’t real. They are just feelings. At the end of the day all you have is your body, mind, health and wealth. However you feel about those things will change quite a bit throughout the average persons lifetime. What matters today might not matter tomorrow.
- sleazy_b 6y ago
  I think they are real. Just because they are a temporary state or contradicted by other real feelings doesn’t make them not real. For me it has been helpful to remember that how I’m feeling now is not the only way I’ll feel and how I’m thinking about a subject is not the only way I have to think about that subject. Feelings and thoughts change, as you said.
  - proverbialbunny 6y ago
    I think what suifbwish is getting at is the more meta-physical nature of emotions. What I mean by that is one has strong vivid thought about some doom that will come or some horrible thing that happened in the past and they are strong emotions. It's easy to get caught up in them and lose the present moment. When you lose the present moment your mind can not differentiate between now and a memory, so it thinks the memory is now and responds accordingly. Memories and emotions are not "real" in that they are not the present moment, and being able to stay grounded in the present moment while having these thoughts can help. In metaphor, it's like pinching yourself while dreaming. What imo helps the most is realizing everything is impermanent / temporary. If you have a particularly gruesome emotion you can know you don't have to do anything, because it will go away on its own, like a rain cloud, in due time. So you can relax even while freaking out.
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  > ... it’s important to remember they aren’t real. They are just feelings. what helps me get through the day is exactly this. we're just a sack of liquid chemical that constantly chances its structure. the feeling I experience within a time span of 30 minutes alone between waking up and having my first coffee, or in between forcing myself to put on my running gear and returning from a run, are changing everything. and if things can change in only a few minutes, how I perceive the world over a longer time can too. some of this comes naturally with age when hormones change. it does have upsides when not everything and everyone is able to spoil my day. these days I make sure I do not add things into my life as the first approach but to see what I can subtract in order to troubleshot my body and feelings. only after I can't take anything away any more do I see what I might need (and where others earn money on me and are motivated to push me into that direction. some examples that help me personally battle decades of depression: - eat only half the amount or try intermittent fasting for a month - cut the booze or weed (one day a week max less if I can) - take daily walks/runs of at least 30 mins. - start the morning with a cold shower (prepares me mentally that my day might not be smooth and certainly won't start comfortable) - leave your phone at home when going out and see how that makes you feel. if you think this is nuts or makes you uncomfortable think about why the lack of an electronic device makes you feel this way. - always shower right after returning from work (or finishing work). matter of habit for me since I didn't always have an office job. it allows me to unwind and "wash away" all the work stuff. reminds me that I am now at home and prep myself to have different thoughts (if you prefer a bath that's cool but in my case with kids/family I never had time to disappear into the bath the moment I got home. 10 mins shower was always possible). I find this really valuable in a WFH scenario. these days I run/exercise right after work so the shower is simply needed anyway in case of burn-out: - compartmentalize my work and private life as much as possible (time wise but if possible also location: in WFH this means work-laptop/phone remains in my home-office powered down as an extra hurdle to avoid me popping in at 23:00 to check up on an important thought ...). - in case of burn-out: maybe my job is, but my private life isn't a hamster-wheel. cut the training-plan crap and goal setting to a minimum. it's OK to just go for a run and not worry about reaching the correct times set out in the training plan in prep for a marathon where I'm competing against thousands of others. it's OK to compete for fun but don't overdo it. but everything what parent & GP said too. About brain fog, mind-wandering etc: I have this since at least 2012. It came with my burn-out back then and a complete melt-down and dissolution of my personality. I feel like my head is wrapped in cotton or there is some barrier between me and my outside world. at the same time I have this I also gained the ability of sitting still without any desire or urge to push forward with anything if I want to. Might be an age thing but I'm now able to play with my own thoughts all day long and don't get stressed by the idea of not communicating with anyone. I still enjoy company and conversation but I also value being able to spend time simply sitting there and thinking (like a lunatic perhaps idk).
hyperpallium2 6y ago
doing the exact opposite of how you feel It can be a surprising truth that you have the freedom to choose to do something, even if you don't feel you want to. Your agency is not enslaved to your emotions. Another tack is to approach the activity as an experiment or exploration. Not I must do this, or even if I do this it will help, but: I wonder if it will help, or even I bet it won't, let's see who's right!
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
  I see even when people can rationalize it correctly, that is see the long term gains from doing it, tend to still be enslaved to their present feelings if those feelings are strong enough. This is the struggle of depression. I find for situations like that, the blastoff technique works well. When you find you need to do something, instead of thinking about it, start counting backwards from 5, like you're a rocket getting ready to blastoff. It takes 4-5 seconds for the other part of the mind to come in and override the action, so as long as you jump out of bed before that timer hits zero, it's easy. This way you can do whatever it is you need to get done regardless how you feel. You can always think about how to do it once you've gotten started. It sounds silly but it works very well and is super easy to do. A zen teacher once told me, "Don't think. Do." to mean basically the same thing.
  - cutemonster 6y ago
    > it takes 4-5 seconds for the other part of the mind to come in and override the action, so as long as ... before that Meaning, for the stone age feelings parts of the brain, to realize that "but I want to stay in bed"? If one acts faster than that part of the brain, then it's harder for it to mess things up? (Like, feeling sad, worrying, doing nothing)
    - proverbialbunny 6y ago
      Basically.
      - 6y ago

tbenst 6y ago

This is a kind and thoughtful reply. I would push back on the notion that there has to be a cause for depression. Maybe there is, but it can lead to the dangerous conclusion that it’s somehow one’s fault, when it’s actually a maladaptive behavioral state; a disease. Fully agree with your advice to talk to a professional.

proverbialbunny 6y ago
Thanks. I see how that could be a concern. To address it, there can be causality without fault. Fault is a kind of blame. Blame is when you take out a timeline and put your finger down on an arbitrary part and say, "It's because of this." and fault is taking that arbitrary point and reducing the event down into actors by saying, "It's because of you everything went wrong." Looking closely, fault provides no benefit. You can grow and improve by looking at causality. You can learn why someone did what they did and learn from that, which is far more beneficial than the overly reductionist fault. Fault as a default is a lazy way of thinking. Instead we can see the ignorance in ones decision, or the defensiveness in ones decision when they assume another was being harmful to them (eg arguing or retaliation), or we can see the short sighted selfishness in some rare situations (eg, narcissism). Fault is not necessary. It's a hindrance towards a higher resolution view and from that greater awareness comes greater learning capacity, a heightened wisdom, and possibly even heightened intelligence.
- Spoom 6y ago
  There are scenarios where there is not a clear cause that is within the person's control. Granted, I think your suggestions are great places to start, and helpful for many. That said, some cases of depression cannot be effectively treated without therapy or medication, and I think it's a bit... incomplete to suggest otherwise.
  - proverbialbunny 6y ago
    No one knows that until they've exhausted other options. Hope is not a bad thing, unless you want to sit around and do nothing with your life and feel terrible. To be concerned with the impossible is a symptom and a cause of depression, called learned helplessness.
Pokepokalypse 6y ago
That's true, and it's a standard grief-mechanism to try to look for a cause. Especially people with an analytical personality. Their go-to emotional coping mechanism for bad feelings can become to try to analyzed and problem-solve. And while you can do that if your depression has an obvious cause. . . there are tons of people who are depressed for no obvious reason - OR - there is no way to get out of the situation that's causing it. The solution in those cases is to not try to solve it, but instead to let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions. It's difficult because the emotional part of the brain does NOT have the ability to use language. It evolved hundreds of millions of years ago, and is the deepest part of our central nervous system, and absolutely necessary for our survival. It can not be shut off or ignored. And in the case of depression, it may or may not be "normal" - but it is doing it's job.

suifbwish 6y ago

Great advice. I would add that another strategy that has been useful to many is that when you are feeling negative emotions stirring up uncontrollably, it’s important to remember they aren’t real. They are just feelings. At the end of the day all you have is your body, mind, health and wealth. However you feel about those things will change quite a bit throughout the average persons lifetime. What matters today might not matter tomorrow.

sleazy_b 6y ago
I think they are real. Just because they are a temporary state or contradicted by other real feelings doesn’t make them not real. For me it has been helpful to remember that how I’m feeling now is not the only way I’ll feel and how I’m thinking about a subject is not the only way I have to think about that subject. Feelings and thoughts change, as you said.
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
  I think what suifbwish is getting at is the more meta-physical nature of emotions. What I mean by that is one has strong vivid thought about some doom that will come or some horrible thing that happened in the past and they are strong emotions. It's easy to get caught up in them and lose the present moment. When you lose the present moment your mind can not differentiate between now and a memory, so it thinks the memory is now and responds accordingly. Memories and emotions are not "real" in that they are not the present moment, and being able to stay grounded in the present moment while having these thoughts can help. In metaphor, it's like pinching yourself while dreaming. What imo helps the most is realizing everything is impermanent / temporary. If you have a particularly gruesome emotion you can know you don't have to do anything, because it will go away on its own, like a rain cloud, in due time. So you can relax even while freaking out.
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
> ... it’s important to remember they aren’t real. They are just feelings. what helps me get through the day is exactly this. we're just a sack of liquid chemical that constantly chances its structure. the feeling I experience within a time span of 30 minutes alone between waking up and having my first coffee, or in between forcing myself to put on my running gear and returning from a run, are changing everything. and if things can change in only a few minutes, how I perceive the world over a longer time can too. some of this comes naturally with age when hormones change. it does have upsides when not everything and everyone is able to spoil my day. these days I make sure I do not add things into my life as the first approach but to see what I can subtract in order to troubleshot my body and feelings. only after I can't take anything away any more do I see what I might need (and where others earn money on me and are motivated to push me into that direction. some examples that help me personally battle decades of depression: - eat only half the amount or try intermittent fasting for a month - cut the booze or weed (one day a week max less if I can) - take daily walks/runs of at least 30 mins. - start the morning with a cold shower (prepares me mentally that my day might not be smooth and certainly won't start comfortable) - leave your phone at home when going out and see how that makes you feel. if you think this is nuts or makes you uncomfortable think about why the lack of an electronic device makes you feel this way. - always shower right after returning from work (or finishing work). matter of habit for me since I didn't always have an office job. it allows me to unwind and "wash away" all the work stuff. reminds me that I am now at home and prep myself to have different thoughts (if you prefer a bath that's cool but in my case with kids/family I never had time to disappear into the bath the moment I got home. 10 mins shower was always possible). I find this really valuable in a WFH scenario. these days I run/exercise right after work so the shower is simply needed anyway in case of burn-out: - compartmentalize my work and private life as much as possible (time wise but if possible also location: in WFH this means work-laptop/phone remains in my home-office powered down as an extra hurdle to avoid me popping in at 23:00 to check up on an important thought ...). - in case of burn-out: maybe my job is, but my private life isn't a hamster-wheel. cut the training-plan crap and goal setting to a minimum. it's OK to just go for a run and not worry about reaching the correct times set out in the training plan in prep for a marathon where I'm competing against thousands of others. it's OK to compete for fun but don't overdo it. but everything what parent & GP said too. About brain fog, mind-wandering etc: I have this since at least 2012. It came with my burn-out back then and a complete melt-down and dissolution of my personality. I feel like my head is wrapped in cotton or there is some barrier between me and my outside world. at the same time I have this I also gained the ability of sitting still without any desire or urge to push forward with anything if I want to. Might be an age thing but I'm now able to play with my own thoughts all day long and don't get stressed by the idea of not communicating with anyone. I still enjoy company and conversation but I also value being able to spend time simply sitting there and thinking (like a lunatic perhaps idk).

hyperpallium2 6y ago

doing the exact opposite of how you feel It can be a surprising truth that you have the freedom to choose to do something, even if you don't feel you want to. Your agency is not enslaved to your emotions. Another tack is to approach the activity as an experiment or exploration. Not I must do this, or even if I do this it will help, but: I wonder if it will help, or even I bet it won't, let's see who's right!

proverbialbunny 6y ago
I see even when people can rationalize it correctly, that is see the long term gains from doing it, tend to still be enslaved to their present feelings if those feelings are strong enough. This is the struggle of depression. I find for situations like that, the blastoff technique works well. When you find you need to do something, instead of thinking about it, start counting backwards from 5, like you're a rocket getting ready to blastoff. It takes 4-5 seconds for the other part of the mind to come in and override the action, so as long as you jump out of bed before that timer hits zero, it's easy. This way you can do whatever it is you need to get done regardless how you feel. You can always think about how to do it once you've gotten started. It sounds silly but it works very well and is super easy to do. A zen teacher once told me, "Don't think. Do." to mean basically the same thing.
- cutemonster 6y ago
  > it takes 4-5 seconds for the other part of the mind to come in and override the action, so as long as ... before that Meaning, for the stone age feelings parts of the brain, to realize that "but I want to stay in bed"? If one acts faster than that part of the brain, then it's harder for it to mess things up? (Like, feeling sad, worrying, doing nothing)
  - proverbialbunny 6y ago
    Basically.
    - 6y ago