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Yeah, this is a popular saying, but couldn’t be further from the truth for the most successful people. Generally, they begin with an end in mind. It’s a lot ea

by thrav 6y ago

Yeah, this is a popular saying, but couldn’t be further from the truth for the most successful people. Generally, they begin with an end in mind. It’s a lot easier to get where you’re going if you know where that is. Or, as the Cheshire Cat says to Alice, “Which way should I go?” “Where do you want to go?” “I don’t much care.” “Then it doesn’t really matter.” (Abridged)

dvtrn 6y ago
Yeah, this is a popular saying, but couldn’t be further from the truth for the most successful people. Probably. What about the rest of us who aren't really looking to those people for any kind of framework? Part of the whole "thinking there's a grand narrative" that caused me anxiety was trying to model after all of these "successful" people, what they were doing, and realizing I wasn't any happier for it. Lately, what's brought me a lot of calm wasn't the chase of an "end state" (so to speak) but more optimizing my path. That, personally, and only speaking personally has been INFINITELY more rewarding. If that's the "it" factor, then so be it ;)
nightski 6y ago
By successful you probably mean in the monetary sense. I think it's easy when you choose that as your goal. Not everyone strives for that. Especially software engineers who have enough where it sometimes already feels like excess and going after more becomes less attractive.
hanoz 6y ago
I'm not sure the Cheshire Cat was really extolling the virtues of knowing where you want to get to.
ryandrake 6y ago
Yea, I'm a big believer in setting goals, and then taking the "most likely" path to get there. My career decision method (disclaimer: it might not work for you) boils down to this: 1. Estimate $X: how much $$$ investment do I need in order for my family to live off interest for Y years so I never work again? For me right now, $X is 5M and Y is 40 years. 2. What do I need to do right now in order to get closer to $X? Maybe it's "study computer engineering". Maybe it's "get a job in tech". Maybe it's "apply for a FAANG company". Maybe it's "Go for promo". Maybe it's "Add more to my retirement savings". Maybe it's even "Change my entire fucking career, I'm at a dead end." Whatever it is will be different for whatever stage of life I'm at. 3. If not at $X, GOTO 1. 4. Retire and do whatever I really want to do with my life. That's pretty much it for my state machine. I wish I figured this out in my 20s--if I did, I'd be much closer to step 4 than I am now in my 40s.
- hectormalot 6y ago
  I once read a book that described this line of thinking as the “deferred life plan”.[1] At some level I think everyone is pushing some part of ‘what I really want to do’ to the future. I know I do. At the same time I think it’s important to remember to enjoy the years leading up to step 4, even if that makes the overall path less efficient. 1: the monk and the riddle
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  > Retire and do whatever I really want to do with my life. Do you know what that is? I suspect most people don't, especially after spending 20+ years in various jobs.
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    Oh yea. I have a long list of things I'd be doing if I wasn't filling out TPS reports 5 days a week. Some of them I've already started, but on nights and weekends. I can't wait to retire, and know exactly how I'd take advantage of the time!
- abdabab 6y ago
  > to live off interest for Y years You don’t have to live off interest to retire. 4% withdrawal is good enough [1]. You might be lot closer to retirement than you think. [1] https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Safe_withdrawal_rates https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Safe_withdrawal_rates
seppin 6y ago
> Yeah, this is a popular saying, but couldn’t be further from the truth for the most successful people. Sergey and Larry tried to sell Google for 1 million dollars, and failed. Zuck thought Facebook would never be profitable. The idea that "successful people" have plan all along is fiction. They might have a vision and are pursuing said vision, but things rarely turn out anywhere near the way they are intended.

by thrav 6y ago

dvtrn 6y ago

Yeah, this is a popular saying, but couldn’t be further from the truth for the most successful people. Probably. What about the rest of us who aren't really looking to those people for any kind of framework? Part of the whole "thinking there's a grand narrative" that caused me anxiety was trying to model after all of these "successful" people, what they were doing, and realizing I wasn't any happier for it. Lately, what's brought me a lot of calm wasn't the chase of an "end state" (so to speak) but more optimizing my path. That, personally, and only speaking personally has been INFINITELY more rewarding. If that's the "it" factor, then so be it ;)

nightski 6y ago

By successful you probably mean in the monetary sense. I think it's easy when you choose that as your goal. Not everyone strives for that. Especially software engineers who have enough where it sometimes already feels like excess and going after more becomes less attractive.

hanoz 6y ago

I'm not sure the Cheshire Cat was really extolling the virtues of knowing where you want to get to.

ryandrake 6y ago

Yea, I'm a big believer in setting goals, and then taking the "most likely" path to get there. My career decision method (disclaimer: it might not work for you) boils down to this: 1. Estimate $X: how much $$$ investment do I need in order for my family to live off interest for Y years so I never work again? For me right now, $X is 5M and Y is 40 years. 2. What do I need to do right now in order to get closer to $X? Maybe it's "study computer engineering". Maybe it's "get a job in tech". Maybe it's "apply for a FAANG company". Maybe it's "Go for promo". Maybe it's "Add more to my retirement savings". Maybe it's even "Change my entire fucking career, I'm at a dead end." Whatever it is will be different for whatever stage of life I'm at. 3. If not at $X, GOTO 1. 4. Retire and do whatever I really want to do with my life. That's pretty much it for my state machine. I wish I figured this out in my 20s--if I did, I'd be much closer to step 4 than I am now in my 40s.

hectormalot 6y ago
I once read a book that described this line of thinking as the “deferred life plan”.[1] At some level I think everyone is pushing some part of ‘what I really want to do’ to the future. I know I do. At the same time I think it’s important to remember to enjoy the years leading up to step 4, even if that makes the overall path less efficient. 1: the monk and the riddle
burntoutfire 6y ago
> Retire and do whatever I really want to do with my life. Do you know what that is? I suspect most people don't, especially after spending 20+ years in various jobs.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  Oh yea. I have a long list of things I'd be doing if I wasn't filling out TPS reports 5 days a week. Some of them I've already started, but on nights and weekends. I can't wait to retire, and know exactly how I'd take advantage of the time!
abdabab 6y ago
> to live off interest for Y years You don’t have to live off interest to retire. 4% withdrawal is good enough [1]. You might be lot closer to retirement than you think. [1] https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Safe_withdrawal_rates https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Safe_withdrawal_rates

seppin 6y ago

> Yeah, this is a popular saying, but couldn’t be further from the truth for the most successful people. Sergey and Larry tried to sell Google for 1 million dollars, and failed. Zuck thought Facebook would never be profitable. The idea that "successful people" have plan all along is fiction. They might have a vision and are pursuing said vision, but things rarely turn out anywhere near the way they are intended.