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Appears to have stalled. The group behind it hasn't updated their site since 2017: http://rfenergy.org/press-room/ http://rfenergy.org/press-room/

tpmx 6y ago
Everything related to Microwave ovens seems to have stalled - because of patents? I wanted to buy a microwave oven with these two features: a) Panasonic-style inverter tech - actual granular power control rather than just pausing for 10 seconds now and then (ultra-low frequency PWM) when running at less than 100% power. b) Sharp-style "start immediately and run for 30-60 secs more for every button press" start button functionality I've tried really hard to find a Microwave oven in Europe that does both a + b. It doesn't seem to exist.
- TMWNN 6y ago
  > Everything related to Microwave ovens seems to have stalled - because of patents? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- Wistar 6y ago
  Look at LG's NeoChef "Smart Inverter Magnetron" models. I have the .9 cu ft one. Inverter tech plus starts immediately and two "add time" controls: one adds in 30 second increments and a separate control that adds OR subtracts cooking time in 10 second intervals. We've had it about two years now, use the heck out of it and it is, unquestionably, the best microwave we've ever had. Plus, it looks good in stainless and black glass. About $130. https://www.lg.com/us/counter-top-microwave https://www.lg.com/us/counter-top-microwave
  - tpmx 6y ago
    Intriguing. Maybe I'll have to import it from the US... (and then run it via some 230V/50 Hz to 110V/60 Hz thingie).
    - Wistar 6y ago
      Do they not sell LG where you are?
      - tpmx 6y ago
        They do, but unfortunately it seems like household products that the global manufacturers offer are very different region to region. I guess the Americas and Asia get the high-end microwave ovens... (but they're also quite different, I'm sure.)
        Wistar 6y ago
        A local appliance dealer who I have come to know on a personal level turned me on to the LG and special-ordered it for me. I had originally asked him about Panasonic inverter microwaves but he dissuaded me saying that the Panasonic ovens suffered from reliability problems. The inverter cooking is fantastic and makes the oven a lot more useful for serious cooking. I will use 20-40% power for re-heating foods over a longer time and the results are that there are none of the weird molten-hot and still-cold pockets of food. Pre-packaged foods whose directions are, say, "heat for 3 minutes," I will instead heat for 5-6 minutes at 40-50% power and the results are considerably more consistent. Plus, I have found that I can get sous vide-like results at low and long settings. For example, I have discovered that heating a filet mignon cut gently at 10-20%, and periodically halting cooking for a minute to let heat distribute evenly through the cut, and then continuing slowly until it temps at 115°F, and then searing on rocket-hot cast iron produces great results. Better than sous vide, at least for beef tenderloin. I know I will never go with a non-inverter microwave again as it turns a blunt instrument into a device capable of truly nuanced cooking. If something is going to tie-up counter space, it had better be worth it and the LG is worth it. The next thing I am looking at is the Anova Precision Combi-Oven. https://anovaculinary.com/anova-precision-oven/ https://anovaculinary.com/anova-precision-oven/
- beervirus 6y ago
  What’s wrong with the low frequency PWM solution?
  - tpmx 6y ago
    It's not optimal. Edit: Imagine trying to heat e.g. a pastry carefully. 10 seconds at full power is enough to make it start boiling, partially, because of the uneven microwave radiation pattern. Other parts will be cold.
    - ori_b 6y ago
      This is a fundamental problem with standing waves in microwave ovens, and isn't really affected by pwm. You need to change the mean free path.
      - tpmx 6y ago
        I've never tried a Panasonic inverter-style microwave oven, but I imagine it would solve this problem. It would be able to run at like say 30% for 30s while rotating the contents.
        sitharus 6y ago
        I have a Panasonic inverter microwave, and it does solve the problem quite well. The standing waves aren't solved, but the lower continual heating lets the energy conduct in the food without overheating parts.
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  We have a Bosch BFL834GC1[1] which I think has the inverter thing you're talking about. It does not have a swivel and from my experience heats quite nicely. I often use the lower settings like 180W for more delicate heating. Pressing start sets to to run for 60 seconds by default, but to change the time you have to use the wheel. Pressing start again pauses it. So maybe that's a no-go for you. [1]: https://www.bosch-home.no/produktliste/komfyr-ovn-platetopp-og-ventilator/mikroboelgeovner/innbygde-mikroboelgeovner/BFL834GC1 https://www.bosch-home.no/produktliste/komfyr-ovn-platetopp-... (NO site) https://www.bosch-home.com/de/produktliste/zu-allen-accent-line-backoefen/BFL834GC1 https://www.bosch-home.com/de/produktliste/zu-allen-accent-l... (DE site)
  - tpmx 6y ago
    Thanks - I forgot to specify that I'm looking for a standalone unit. The equivalent top-of-the-line standalone Siemens microwave requires one extra button press. And it doesn't have the inverter tech. (I think Bosch/Siemens merged their business units in this area.)
    - magicalhippo 6y ago
      Ah, don't know about stand-alone. Hopefully it'll be there soon tho, these things trickle down. Yes, Bosch and Siemens are one and the same, at least for a lot of models. Mostly just a single letter different in the model number and red vs blue highlights where relevant (say dishwasher). Was told at least here in Norway that Siemens was targeted more towards kitchen builders, while Bosch was targeted for consumers directly.
      - tpmx 6y ago
        > these things trickle down Ah yes, I forgot that it's somehow aspirational to have a built-in microwave-oven now, so because of that it can cost €500 and then it's possible to spend $10 licensing those patents/tech. I hate this world. :)
        rootusrootus 6y ago
dmmalam 6y ago
Seems like there's one shipping product. https://theappliancesreviews.com/review-of-innovative-built-in-miele-dialog-oven/ https://theappliancesreviews.com/review-of-innovative-built-...

tpmx 6y ago

Everything related to Microwave ovens seems to have stalled - because of patents? I wanted to buy a microwave oven with these two features: a) Panasonic-style inverter tech - actual granular power control rather than just pausing for 10 seconds now and then (ultra-low frequency PWM) when running at less than 100% power. b) Sharp-style "start immediately and run for 30-60 secs more for every button press" start button functionality I've tried really hard to find a Microwave oven in Europe that does both a + b. It doesn't seem to exist.

TMWNN 6y ago
> Everything related to Microwave ovens seems to have stalled - because of patents? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Wistar 6y ago
Look at LG's NeoChef "Smart Inverter Magnetron" models. I have the .9 cu ft one. Inverter tech plus starts immediately and two "add time" controls: one adds in 30 second increments and a separate control that adds OR subtracts cooking time in 10 second intervals. We've had it about two years now, use the heck out of it and it is, unquestionably, the best microwave we've ever had. Plus, it looks good in stainless and black glass. About $130. https://www.lg.com/us/counter-top-microwave https://www.lg.com/us/counter-top-microwave
- tpmx 6y ago
  Intriguing. Maybe I'll have to import it from the US... (and then run it via some 230V/50 Hz to 110V/60 Hz thingie).
  - Wistar 6y ago
    Do they not sell LG where you are?
    - tpmx 6y ago
      They do, but unfortunately it seems like household products that the global manufacturers offer are very different region to region. I guess the Americas and Asia get the high-end microwave ovens... (but they're also quite different, I'm sure.)
      - Wistar 6y ago
        A local appliance dealer who I have come to know on a personal level turned me on to the LG and special-ordered it for me. I had originally asked him about Panasonic inverter microwaves but he dissuaded me saying that the Panasonic ovens suffered from reliability problems. The inverter cooking is fantastic and makes the oven a lot more useful for serious cooking. I will use 20-40% power for re-heating foods over a longer time and the results are that there are none of the weird molten-hot and still-cold pockets of food. Pre-packaged foods whose directions are, say, "heat for 3 minutes," I will instead heat for 5-6 minutes at 40-50% power and the results are considerably more consistent. Plus, I have found that I can get sous vide-like results at low and long settings. For example, I have discovered that heating a filet mignon cut gently at 10-20%, and periodically halting cooking for a minute to let heat distribute evenly through the cut, and then continuing slowly until it temps at 115°F, and then searing on rocket-hot cast iron produces great results. Better than sous vide, at least for beef tenderloin. I know I will never go with a non-inverter microwave again as it turns a blunt instrument into a device capable of truly nuanced cooking. If something is going to tie-up counter space, it had better be worth it and the LG is worth it. The next thing I am looking at is the Anova Precision Combi-Oven. https://anovaculinary.com/anova-precision-oven/ https://anovaculinary.com/anova-precision-oven/
beervirus 6y ago
What’s wrong with the low frequency PWM solution?
- tpmx 6y ago
  It's not optimal. Edit: Imagine trying to heat e.g. a pastry carefully. 10 seconds at full power is enough to make it start boiling, partially, because of the uneven microwave radiation pattern. Other parts will be cold.
  - ori_b 6y ago
    This is a fundamental problem with standing waves in microwave ovens, and isn't really affected by pwm. You need to change the mean free path.
    - tpmx 6y ago
      I've never tried a Panasonic inverter-style microwave oven, but I imagine it would solve this problem. It would be able to run at like say 30% for 30s while rotating the contents.
      - sitharus 6y ago
        I have a Panasonic inverter microwave, and it does solve the problem quite well. The standing waves aren't solved, but the lower continual heating lets the energy conduct in the food without overheating parts.
magicalhippo 6y ago
We have a Bosch BFL834GC1[1] which I think has the inverter thing you're talking about. It does not have a swivel and from my experience heats quite nicely. I often use the lower settings like 180W for more delicate heating. Pressing start sets to to run for 60 seconds by default, but to change the time you have to use the wheel. Pressing start again pauses it. So maybe that's a no-go for you. [1]: https://www.bosch-home.no/produktliste/komfyr-ovn-platetopp-og-ventilator/mikroboelgeovner/innbygde-mikroboelgeovner/BFL834GC1 https://www.bosch-home.no/produktliste/komfyr-ovn-platetopp-... (NO site) https://www.bosch-home.com/de/produktliste/zu-allen-accent-line-backoefen/BFL834GC1 https://www.bosch-home.com/de/produktliste/zu-allen-accent-l... (DE site)
- tpmx 6y ago
  Thanks - I forgot to specify that I'm looking for a standalone unit. The equivalent top-of-the-line standalone Siemens microwave requires one extra button press. And it doesn't have the inverter tech. (I think Bosch/Siemens merged their business units in this area.)
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    Ah, don't know about stand-alone. Hopefully it'll be there soon tho, these things trickle down. Yes, Bosch and Siemens are one and the same, at least for a lot of models. Mostly just a single letter different in the model number and red vs blue highlights where relevant (say dishwasher). Was told at least here in Norway that Siemens was targeted more towards kitchen builders, while Bosch was targeted for consumers directly.
    - tpmx 6y ago
      > these things trickle down Ah yes, I forgot that it's somehow aspirational to have a built-in microwave-oven now, so because of that it can cost €500 and then it's possible to spend $10 licensing those patents/tech. I hate this world. :)
      - rootusrootus 6y ago

dmmalam 6y ago

Seems like there's one shipping product. https://theappliancesreviews.com/review-of-innovative-built-in-miele-dialog-oven/ https://theappliancesreviews.com/review-of-innovative-built-...