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HN loves to be gruff and contrarian about these topics. So I'm going to say this for any readers that are or will be looking for jobs: Yes, the article is most

HN loves to be gruff and contrarian about these topics. So I'm going to say this for any readers that are or will be looking for jobs: Yes, the article is mostly right. Yes, you should quantify your achievements as much as possible. And yes, the popular pattern "Accomplished X, as measured by Y, by doing Z" is effective. The example in the article is not the best because there's too much of a leap between "moving to React" and "increasing user engagement by 27%". As a reader I'm left wondering why moving to React had such an impact. In this situation it's worth spending some of your precious word count to explain things better.

MattGaiser 6y ago
One of the problems is that "measured by Y" often does not exist, so if it is included, it is misleading, lacking context, or just whatever number could be found. A colleague of mine probably doubled the speed of an API by deleting a feature on that page. The only reason we know is that it is noticeable how much faster it is in manual testing. Took him a few minutes to remove the function and run the tests. "Cut API load time by 50% with optimization of Hibernate queries" is true, but also ridiculous. On my own resume, I have played with the words to arrive at the largest number possible for the scale of what I did. As we didn't numerically measure anything, so it was massaging of a number into a number that was large. Recruiters seem to react well to it, but it is absurd that they do. I don't disagree that this works. I use it on my own resume. I don't think that is the problem HN has. It is just expressing annoyance that we have to play another stupid game to get hired.
- CharlesW 6y ago
  > "Cut API load time by 50% with optimization of Hibernate queries" is true, but also ridiculous. In my experience it's absolutely not ridiculous (improvements should be measured by impact, not LOC) but it could still be improved by conveying the benefit to the company or API consumers.
  - edoceo 6y ago
    I read that Hibernate line as "removed Hibernate for direct DB connection"
- mcenedella 6y ago
  OP here. Thanks for the great comment. As you think about your overall career, I guess I'd ask you to not think of this as merely a stupid game. In the complete context, you're an accomplished technology professional who will continue to develop skills, talents, and capabilities throughout your career. How you put your talents to work in solving level-appropriate challenges and problems is important to your progression in your career. So starting with the meaningful, real, achievements -- your ever-improving aptitude and problem-solving abilities, applied against problems of ever-increasing complexity and depth -- how do we best express that in a short, asynchronous format of about 300-500 words? Inevitably, the compression of a human experience to this reduced, written, format will leave out meaningful nuance and important clarifications. But in the overall system, it's necessary for the participants involved to have some way of prioritizing the expense of time, money and attention on interviewing and recruiting specific individuals. The alternative is unworkable for everybody - we simply can't conduct full interviews of every applicant, it wouldn't be a good use of company's OR applicants' time. So if, for the system to work better, we need to adopt this practice, then how can you best represent your true professional capabilities within a limited, constrained document such as a resume. My post suggests it is with numbers, and my observations of actual behavior with recruiters and hiring managers show that numbers are better. A great technical resume can help get you the interview. In an interview, especially a behavioral interview, you'll be asked deeper question about that 50% reduction in API load time. If it turns out that it was just a few minutes to implement, the hiring manager will, rightly, question your technical judgment in putting that forth as one of the 2 or 3 or 4 most significant accomplishments in your career at that company. So rather than viewing it as a game, I'd suggest starting with the real achievements you've had in your career, focus on those and how to best represent them in brief, written format. Tricks or shortcuts like mentioning a task that only took a few minutes won't work well, and leave you behind where you could be with more appropriate achievements.
mcenedella 6y ago
OP here. This is a fair critique of the simple example shared in the article. Many thanks!
6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
If nothing else, just make sure they come off as achievements rather than just stuff you did. We’ve all seen projects that made us go “but why? That seems like a bad use of time.” “Migrated from MySQL to Postgres” could be a massive waste of time, or it could have made something much better. The difference between a waste and an accomplishment is what is you want the resume to reflect. A quantified outcome is one way to do that, and reflect well on some roles/projects, but not others.

MattGaiser 6y ago

One of the problems is that "measured by Y" often does not exist, so if it is included, it is misleading, lacking context, or just whatever number could be found. A colleague of mine probably doubled the speed of an API by deleting a feature on that page. The only reason we know is that it is noticeable how much faster it is in manual testing. Took him a few minutes to remove the function and run the tests. "Cut API load time by 50% with optimization of Hibernate queries" is true, but also ridiculous. On my own resume, I have played with the words to arrive at the largest number possible for the scale of what I did. As we didn't numerically measure anything, so it was massaging of a number into a number that was large. Recruiters seem to react well to it, but it is absurd that they do. I don't disagree that this works. I use it on my own resume. I don't think that is the problem HN has. It is just expressing annoyance that we have to play another stupid game to get hired.

CharlesW 6y ago
> "Cut API load time by 50% with optimization of Hibernate queries" is true, but also ridiculous. In my experience it's absolutely not ridiculous (improvements should be measured by impact, not LOC) but it could still be improved by conveying the benefit to the company or API consumers.
- edoceo 6y ago
  I read that Hibernate line as "removed Hibernate for direct DB connection"
mcenedella 6y ago
OP here. Thanks for the great comment. As you think about your overall career, I guess I'd ask you to not think of this as merely a stupid game. In the complete context, you're an accomplished technology professional who will continue to develop skills, talents, and capabilities throughout your career. How you put your talents to work in solving level-appropriate challenges and problems is important to your progression in your career. So starting with the meaningful, real, achievements -- your ever-improving aptitude and problem-solving abilities, applied against problems of ever-increasing complexity and depth -- how do we best express that in a short, asynchronous format of about 300-500 words? Inevitably, the compression of a human experience to this reduced, written, format will leave out meaningful nuance and important clarifications. But in the overall system, it's necessary for the participants involved to have some way of prioritizing the expense of time, money and attention on interviewing and recruiting specific individuals. The alternative is unworkable for everybody - we simply can't conduct full interviews of every applicant, it wouldn't be a good use of company's OR applicants' time. So if, for the system to work better, we need to adopt this practice, then how can you best represent your true professional capabilities within a limited, constrained document such as a resume. My post suggests it is with numbers, and my observations of actual behavior with recruiters and hiring managers show that numbers are better. A great technical resume can help get you the interview. In an interview, especially a behavioral interview, you'll be asked deeper question about that 50% reduction in API load time. If it turns out that it was just a few minutes to implement, the hiring manager will, rightly, question your technical judgment in putting that forth as one of the 2 or 3 or 4 most significant accomplishments in your career at that company. So rather than viewing it as a game, I'd suggest starting with the real achievements you've had in your career, focus on those and how to best represent them in brief, written format. Tricks or shortcuts like mentioning a task that only took a few minutes won't work well, and leave you behind where you could be with more appropriate achievements.

mcenedella 6y ago

OP here. This is a fair critique of the simple example shared in the article. Many thanks!

6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago

If nothing else, just make sure they come off as achievements rather than just stuff you did. We’ve all seen projects that made us go “but why? That seems like a bad use of time.” “Migrated from MySQL to Postgres” could be a massive waste of time, or it could have made something much better. The difference between a waste and an accomplishment is what is you want the resume to reflect. A quantified outcome is one way to do that, and reflect well on some roles/projects, but not others.