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Tangentially related, Technology Connections published an interesting video just a few days ago, "The Antique Microwave Oven that's Better than Yours": https://

Tangentially related, Technology Connections published an interesting video just a few days ago, "The Antique Microwave Oven that's Better than Yours": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0

AnotherGoodName 6y ago
Looking at that video all i can think is there's a reason no one makes a microwave like that anymore. They suck. No one wants a 3 level deep option to specify 'Reheat - Potato'. Yes you can make a microwave that cooks certain foods to perfection but it turns out that you can also get very close by smashing a +30second button or spinning a dial. You don't even have to read a manual.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  Well you can surely design a better UX while still maintaining the smart sensors.
  - TonyTrapp 6y ago
    Maybe a good next step for this project... the display is already there. :)
  - AnotherGoodName 6y ago
    Camera/lidar/infrared and some ML to see what the food is and then a one button 'cook'? That'd be quite awesome tbh.
    - gumby 6y ago
      Only works if there's a subscription to recipes for the food inserted, improved potato recognition etc. Bonus if, after 18 months, you need to buy a replacement microwave because a security certificate has expired.
      - rhizome 6y ago
        > Only works if there's a subscription to recipes for the food inserted And then you get a Netflix vs. HBO Max problem where one subscription doesn't have potato recipes and the other doesn't have anything that contains butter.
        gumby 6y ago
        Ha, my ex would have been furious as DRM would have prevented subs to cooking programs from her or my countries, but just ones for USA food.
    - AceJohnny2 6y ago
      The June Oven doesn't really work out in practice: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/june-oven/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/june-oven/
      - AnotherGoodName 6y ago
        I suspect this would be similar to the first full screen smart phones. I had one of those. Long before the iPhone was a thing. It sucked. The idea is good. It'll just take a while before someone gets the implementation right.
    - Yen 6y ago
      Disclaimer: I currently work for June Oven. The June Oven does this, and it works pretty darn well IMO. It's using just a video camera to do food recognition, but it's fairly high-accuracy for recognizing supported foods. The first few times you do it, frankly, it feels kinda magical. But, actually, a lot of my usage doesn't lean on the pre-set programs. Rather, I do a lot of 'reheat leftovers' by sticking a temperature probe into the food, hooking it in to the oven, and having the oven automatically reheat until the internal temperature is warmed.
  - canofbars 6y ago
    The problem with the UX is you have to input the type of food you are cooking. Its easier to store the cooking time in your brain than to input the type in a huge list. Unless the microwave can auto detect what the food is I can't see how this can be fixed.
- anonymfus 6y ago
  > No one wants a 3 level deep option to specify 'Reheat - Potato'. You don't need that, there are also bookmarks and an alphabetical index. And actually as every item listed on the screen has a separate button, it's almost always less button presses than smashing your +30 seconds button.
  - canofbars 6y ago
    >less button presses than smashing your +30 seconds button. Pressing the same button rapidly 4 times is faster and easier than pressing 3 buttons after reading a menu
    - anonymfus 6y ago
      Anyway there is also a num pad here, seems like for two minutes you press "2", "0", "0", "Start". If it would be a three column num pad instead of a five column one, most people would already have a muscle memory for it.
- ihuman 6y ago
  > but it turns out that you can also get very close by smashing a +30second button or spinning a dial Isn't that only the case if you already know how long to microwave a potato?
- pugworthy 6y ago
  Alexa interface? I'm not really joking. "Alexa, run the microwave to reheat a potato"
- xahrepap 6y ago
  All I need is a +30 second button and a Power Level button that cycles through the available power levels. Oh, and I guess a cancel/resume button? But maybe just auto-clear when you open it. And resume by hitting the +30 again :)
waynesonfire 6y ago
you click these f#$@ing links and it's GRAMMARELY! I would pay money to never see this annoying ass shit again.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
franga2000 6y ago
This same guy made a similar video about an antique toaster and the absolutely ingenious way it works without any electronics still haunts me to this day
- chaos_a 6y ago
  and it works better. There's no timer on it, you just set the amount you want it to toast. I'm surprised nobody has ever tried to replicate to it, not even on kickstarter.
- Graziano_M 6y ago
  And when it was posted here, he was lambasted for it.
hrishi 6y ago
Was just about to post this video. I think some of the su comments suggesting AI/ML or IoT seem to miss his point: in a lot of cases, good old fashioned individual problem solving expressed as decision trees and lookup tables can do wonders. Sure, it's a lot more ambitious as a VC-backed company to "solve" cooking by having the one algorithm to rule them all, but in most cases it's not even known that this is an algorithm that is decidable. What I know we can do right now is to add a sensor to cook a potato, heat a hot water bottle, and cook popcorn with minimal logic and good testing. This way you'll also have a product that helps most users do 80% of their tasks while the cook-anything algorithm is still burning millions in stealth. If you're smart you may even collect enough data and operational knowledge building this product to put you way ahead of other teams, should you wish to go the AI route.
mikewarot 6y ago
I also came here to post that... the inclusion of a humidity sensor makes for an amazingly better Microwave oven. Who cares about the User Interface if it can do things no other microwave can, I'll put up with it. Imagine finding a base microwave that works, adding the humidity sensor, AND a thermal camera of some sort... you could bring food up to temperature and hold it there. The tricky bit is shielding the camera from the RF field.

AnotherGoodName 6y ago

Looking at that video all i can think is there's a reason no one makes a microwave like that anymore. They suck. No one wants a 3 level deep option to specify 'Reheat - Potato'. Yes you can make a microwave that cooks certain foods to perfection but it turns out that you can also get very close by smashing a +30second button or spinning a dial. You don't even have to read a manual.

aaomidi 6y ago
Well you can surely design a better UX while still maintaining the smart sensors.
- TonyTrapp 6y ago
  Maybe a good next step for this project... the display is already there. :)
- AnotherGoodName 6y ago
  Camera/lidar/infrared and some ML to see what the food is and then a one button 'cook'? That'd be quite awesome tbh.
  - gumby 6y ago
    Only works if there's a subscription to recipes for the food inserted, improved potato recognition etc. Bonus if, after 18 months, you need to buy a replacement microwave because a security certificate has expired.
    - rhizome 6y ago
      > Only works if there's a subscription to recipes for the food inserted And then you get a Netflix vs. HBO Max problem where one subscription doesn't have potato recipes and the other doesn't have anything that contains butter.
      - gumby 6y ago
        Ha, my ex would have been furious as DRM would have prevented subs to cooking programs from her or my countries, but just ones for USA food.
  - AceJohnny2 6y ago
    The June Oven doesn't really work out in practice: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/june-oven/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/june-oven/
    - AnotherGoodName 6y ago
      I suspect this would be similar to the first full screen smart phones. I had one of those. Long before the iPhone was a thing. It sucked. The idea is good. It'll just take a while before someone gets the implementation right.
  - Yen 6y ago
    Disclaimer: I currently work for June Oven. The June Oven does this, and it works pretty darn well IMO. It's using just a video camera to do food recognition, but it's fairly high-accuracy for recognizing supported foods. The first few times you do it, frankly, it feels kinda magical. But, actually, a lot of my usage doesn't lean on the pre-set programs. Rather, I do a lot of 'reheat leftovers' by sticking a temperature probe into the food, hooking it in to the oven, and having the oven automatically reheat until the internal temperature is warmed.
- canofbars 6y ago
  The problem with the UX is you have to input the type of food you are cooking. Its easier to store the cooking time in your brain than to input the type in a huge list. Unless the microwave can auto detect what the food is I can't see how this can be fixed.
anonymfus 6y ago
> No one wants a 3 level deep option to specify 'Reheat - Potato'. You don't need that, there are also bookmarks and an alphabetical index. And actually as every item listed on the screen has a separate button, it's almost always less button presses than smashing your +30 seconds button.
- canofbars 6y ago
  >less button presses than smashing your +30 seconds button. Pressing the same button rapidly 4 times is faster and easier than pressing 3 buttons after reading a menu
  - anonymfus 6y ago
    Anyway there is also a num pad here, seems like for two minutes you press "2", "0", "0", "Start". If it would be a three column num pad instead of a five column one, most people would already have a muscle memory for it.
ihuman 6y ago
> but it turns out that you can also get very close by smashing a +30second button or spinning a dial Isn't that only the case if you already know how long to microwave a potato?
pugworthy 6y ago
Alexa interface? I'm not really joking. "Alexa, run the microwave to reheat a potato"
xahrepap 6y ago
All I need is a +30 second button and a Power Level button that cycles through the available power levels. Oh, and I guess a cancel/resume button? But maybe just auto-clear when you open it. And resume by hitting the +30 again :)

waynesonfire 6y ago

you click these f#$@ing links and it's GRAMMARELY! I would pay money to never see this annoying ass shit again.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

franga2000 6y ago

This same guy made a similar video about an antique toaster and the absolutely ingenious way it works without any electronics still haunts me to this day

chaos_a 6y ago
and it works better. There's no timer on it, you just set the amount you want it to toast. I'm surprised nobody has ever tried to replicate to it, not even on kickstarter.
Graziano_M 6y ago
And when it was posted here, he was lambasted for it.

hrishi 6y ago

Was just about to post this video. I think some of the su comments suggesting AI/ML or IoT seem to miss his point: in a lot of cases, good old fashioned individual problem solving expressed as decision trees and lookup tables can do wonders. Sure, it's a lot more ambitious as a VC-backed company to "solve" cooking by having the one algorithm to rule them all, but in most cases it's not even known that this is an algorithm that is decidable. What I know we can do right now is to add a sensor to cook a potato, heat a hot water bottle, and cook popcorn with minimal logic and good testing. This way you'll also have a product that helps most users do 80% of their tasks while the cook-anything algorithm is still burning millions in stealth. If you're smart you may even collect enough data and operational knowledge building this product to put you way ahead of other teams, should you wish to go the AI route.

mikewarot 6y ago

I also came here to post that... the inclusion of a humidity sensor makes for an amazingly better Microwave oven. Who cares about the User Interface if it can do things no other microwave can, I'll put up with it. Imagine finding a base microwave that works, adding the humidity sensor, AND a thermal camera of some sort... you could bring food up to temperature and hold it there. The tricky bit is shielding the camera from the RF field.