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This isn’t a problem we as Americans need to fix. It fixes itself. For instance, the average Ivy League graduate only makes marginally more money than your publ

This isn’t a problem we as Americans need to fix. It fixes itself. For instance, the average Ivy League graduate only makes marginally more money than your public school graduate. By the time you’re making even low 6 figures, the idea of interacting with an Stanford grad who has done nothing of note with their education and makes something comparable to you is quaint. Generally speaking, distribution of US income as a proxy for social standing gets you pretty far. At the end of the day, being associated with prestige is cute (working for a big name) and perhaps what many people desire, but holding it yourself manifests itself in different ways at the individual level. Those who really have any modicum of power don’t care about baseless associations. “Yeah you worked for a FAANG, great, but what have you accomplished?”

whimsicalism 6y ago
> the average Ivy League graduate only makes marginally more money than your public school graduate. Sorry, what? The average Ivy League graduate makes substantially more than your average non-Ivy graduate. I don't even understand what your second sentence is trying to say.
- sgerenser 6y ago
  I believe he probably got the statistic mixed up. The average Ivy League graduate does indeed make more than the average non-ivy college graduate. But they make about the same (or are about as successful, can’t remember the exact statistic) as someone who got accepted to an Ivy but went elsewhere.
  - andrewmcwatters 6y ago
    No, I mean the actual starting salaries based on employment data from universities themselves tell us there’s only a marginal difference in those who graduate between the institutions. If you look at the degrees themselves as a form of capital investment, Ivy League schools don’t translate into “paying off,” as it were.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      > No, I mean the actual starting salaries based on employment data from universities themselves tell us there’s only a marginal difference in those who graduate between the institutions. Not only is that not true, but Harvard new grads make substantially more than the average BA holder, including people who are 2 decades into their career.
      - hailwren 6y ago
        Yes, and pairwise multivariate comparisons make the gap even larger. (i.e. considering two engineering students or two visual arts students etc)
    - jcheng 6y ago
      Here’s one source that says the difference is significant, to put it mildly. Do you have a better source you can cite? https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?166027-Harvard-University https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?166027-Harvard-Unive... https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?240444-University-of-Wisconsin-Madison https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?240444-University-of... Edit: Actually the third state school I looked up is not far off! https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?236948-University-of-Washington-Seattle-Campus https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?236948-University-of...
      - desert_boi 6y ago
        Picking "Public Ivyies" is stacking the deck a bit, no? My "third tier" school has a median of about half of what Harvard does. https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?142115-Boise-State-University https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?142115-Boise-State-U...
      - andrewmcwatters 6y ago
        What are you talking about? Those are distributions; and they swing just as wildly as the broader US workforce. These people aren't making 250k out of the door, nor mid-career. It's just not impressive.
  - akhilcacharya 6y ago
    What’s the play if I didn’t get accepted into an Ivy tier school but want to make as much as them? What’s a benchmark?
  - gnicholas 6y ago
    Cite supporting your statement: https://outline.com/wWr2v3 https://outline.com/wWr2v3
scarmig 6y ago
> the average Ivy League graduate only makes marginally more money than your public school graduate I'm pretty sure that's not true. I doubt there's much of an actual value-add in going to an elite school, but the average incomes of graduates of them are substantially higher than that of random public school graduates. https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors
- hailwren 6y ago
  Yes, and the gap grows even wider when you normalize for per-professional degree percentages (i.e. STEM/pharm/premed/prelaw/military inflating the bottom half of the curve)
  - rhizome 6y ago
    I'd also be interested to see the rates of claiming unemployment benefits across that spectrum.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  My mediocre high school used to give presentations about how pointless it was to go to a big name school. One of the claims was that, after ten years, all differences in median incomes were gone. Curiously they didn't break it down into percentiles. Everyone in the advisors' office bought into this public-school-to-public-university pipeline. My dream in junior high was to go to MIT. When I mentioned this to my guidance counselor, they said, basically, "Don't bother, you'll never get in." Self-fulfilling prophecy.
  - tomp 6y ago
    They were just managing expectations. Partially the kids’, partially the parents’
    - nitrogen 6y ago
      Managing expectations would be "Here's a plan to maximize your chances, but the chances are still slim, so pick several schools."

whimsicalism 6y ago

> the average Ivy League graduate only makes marginally more money than your public school graduate. Sorry, what? The average Ivy League graduate makes substantially more than your average non-Ivy graduate. I don't even understand what your second sentence is trying to say.

sgerenser 6y ago
I believe he probably got the statistic mixed up. The average Ivy League graduate does indeed make more than the average non-ivy college graduate. But they make about the same (or are about as successful, can’t remember the exact statistic) as someone who got accepted to an Ivy but went elsewhere.
- andrewmcwatters 6y ago
  No, I mean the actual starting salaries based on employment data from universities themselves tell us there’s only a marginal difference in those who graduate between the institutions. If you look at the degrees themselves as a form of capital investment, Ivy League schools don’t translate into “paying off,” as it were.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    > No, I mean the actual starting salaries based on employment data from universities themselves tell us there’s only a marginal difference in those who graduate between the institutions. Not only is that not true, but Harvard new grads make substantially more than the average BA holder, including people who are 2 decades into their career.
    - hailwren 6y ago
      Yes, and pairwise multivariate comparisons make the gap even larger. (i.e. considering two engineering students or two visual arts students etc)
  - jcheng 6y ago
    Here’s one source that says the difference is significant, to put it mildly. Do you have a better source you can cite? https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?166027-Harvard-University https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?166027-Harvard-Unive... https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?240444-University-of-Wisconsin-Madison https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?240444-University-of... Edit: Actually the third state school I looked up is not far off! https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?236948-University-of-Washington-Seattle-Campus https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?236948-University-of...
    - desert_boi 6y ago
      Picking "Public Ivyies" is stacking the deck a bit, no? My "third tier" school has a median of about half of what Harvard does. https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?142115-Boise-State-University https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?142115-Boise-State-U...
    - andrewmcwatters 6y ago
      What are you talking about? Those are distributions; and they swing just as wildly as the broader US workforce. These people aren't making 250k out of the door, nor mid-career. It's just not impressive.
- akhilcacharya 6y ago
  What’s the play if I didn’t get accepted into an Ivy tier school but want to make as much as them? What’s a benchmark?
- gnicholas 6y ago
  Cite supporting your statement: https://outline.com/wWr2v3 https://outline.com/wWr2v3

scarmig 6y ago

> the average Ivy League graduate only makes marginally more money than your public school graduate I'm pretty sure that's not true. I doubt there's much of an actual value-add in going to an elite school, but the average incomes of graduates of them are substantially higher than that of random public school graduates. https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors

hailwren 6y ago
Yes, and the gap grows even wider when you normalize for per-professional degree percentages (i.e. STEM/pharm/premed/prelaw/military inflating the bottom half of the curve)
- rhizome 6y ago
  I'd also be interested to see the rates of claiming unemployment benefits across that spectrum.
nitrogen 6y ago
My mediocre high school used to give presentations about how pointless it was to go to a big name school. One of the claims was that, after ten years, all differences in median incomes were gone. Curiously they didn't break it down into percentiles. Everyone in the advisors' office bought into this public-school-to-public-university pipeline. My dream in junior high was to go to MIT. When I mentioned this to my guidance counselor, they said, basically, "Don't bother, you'll never get in." Self-fulfilling prophecy.
- tomp 6y ago
  They were just managing expectations. Partially the kids’, partially the parents’
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    Managing expectations would be "Here's a plan to maximize your chances, but the chances are still slim, so pick several schools."