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This is exactly my point of view on this. I've seen people complain about Apple on HN about this in all the other posts, but to be fair, this is actually a real

by NikxDa 6y ago

This is exactly my point of view on this. I've seen people complain about Apple on HN about this in all the other posts, but to be fair, this is actually a really good thing. It protects users, and it works well 99.9% of the time (actually, I am not aware of a previous outage of this system). So, why bother? It's been like this for a while, it is actually very useful to the vast majority of users, and Apple being Apple, even if they collected data, it wouldn't be up for sale like it would on a Google machine. All the people saying they need to look for alternatives now that they found out that Apple is sending information about applications to its servers will need to think about this post. It's not like Apple is doing this to track users.

Aldipower 6y ago
Besides the privacy implications, 99.9% means per definition that it does not work for 8.77 hours per year. This is way too much. It is my computer and it should just work how it is meant to be without any external dependencies.
- macintux 6y ago
  Computers haven’t worked well without external dependencies in a very long time. How long can you perform useful work without DNS?
  - centimeter 6y ago
    > How long can you perform useful work without DNS? Is this a serious question? My entire dev toolchain works without internet...
    - blowfish721 6y ago
      Without DNS a lot of my workflows would stop workong since they include various machines/services which all communicate though hostnames/URLs rather than IP addresses, yet almost all are local to my network. So for me this is a valid question.
      - arvindamirtaa 6y ago
        Could you switch DNS providers if one fails? Could you have a fallback? What's the parallel here?
        macintux 6y ago
        The original statement I was objecting to was this: > It is my computer and it should just work how it is meant to be without any external dependencies. DNS is an external dependency, regardless of the level of redundancy.
        arvindamirtaa 6y ago
        Yes. Verbatim that's what it says. But I think we can safely assume from context that the author meant external dependencies mandated by Apple.
  - torstenvl 6y ago
    Extraordinary amounts of work are done without DNS. And even if it weren't, this is nothing like DNS because you can choose your own DNS servers and most people have a primary and a fallback. Where can I set trustd to use a different OCSP server? What is Apple's recommended secondary OCSP server?
    - Shared404 6y ago
      This is a more important point than those of us talking about working offline. A single point of failure, whether local or remote is an unfortunate design decision.
  - FpUser 6y ago
    Is this even serious question? You really think I need DNS to edit my photos, videos, write some music, compile / build my products etc. etc ? And if needed for many things I can use my own DNS services. To post my freshly built product I do not need Apple's DNS. Can do with my own.
  - Shared404 6y ago
    > How long can you perform useful work without DNS? Month's on end. Is this a serious question?
- zepto 6y ago
  This is an extremely reasonable criticism. Quite unlike most of the critiques we saw on the original post.
  - xvector 6y ago
    Wait, how is “information on which apps you are using can be determined by Apple and/or the government” not valid criticism?
    - zepto 6y ago
      Where did I say it isn’t? I have agreed with that criticism elsewhere. I also think unencrypted iCloud backups are a very serious problem.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
torstenvl 6y ago
99.9% is far too unreliable for something so fundamental as whether you can run programs on your own computer, especially when the downtime is unscheduled and occurs in the middle of the day. It should be at least five nines, preferably six nines. Anything less than that is absolutely inexcusable.
- alpaca128 6y ago
  It's indeed interesting how on one side cloud computing is supposed to be reliable and scalable, but then one of the largest and richest corporations which also runs their own cloud storage fails to keep such an essential service running. I don't claim to understand every part of such an OCSP system, but I expect a reliable fallback when millions of devices worldwide assume a 100% uptime.
FpUser 6y ago
>"...and it works well 99.9%..." Can I please have a reference confirming this number >"...It's not like Apple is doing this to track users." And you of course have reliable inside source who can confirm this.
- FpUser 6y ago
  And of course downvote without having shred of evidence supporting the original claims.
  - torstenvl 6y ago
    You're getting downvoted because your comment seems like trolling. The reason it seems like trolling is that the information you're demanding "evidence" for is: - the number of elapsed hours since October 7, 2019, when Catalina was released and OCSP became mandatory - the number of hours of outage the other day - how division works None of these seem to be fairly in dispute.
    - FpUser 6y ago
      Yup. I am wrong on 1st point. Did not think it through. Sorry. Still 99.9% is too much as the others have already pointed out. The other point (tracking users) I think still stands.

by NikxDa 6y ago

Aldipower 6y ago

Besides the privacy implications, 99.9% means per definition that it does not work for 8.77 hours per year. This is way too much. It is my computer and it should just work how it is meant to be without any external dependencies.

macintux 6y ago
Computers haven’t worked well without external dependencies in a very long time. How long can you perform useful work without DNS?
- centimeter 6y ago
  > How long can you perform useful work without DNS? Is this a serious question? My entire dev toolchain works without internet...
  - blowfish721 6y ago
    Without DNS a lot of my workflows would stop workong since they include various machines/services which all communicate though hostnames/URLs rather than IP addresses, yet almost all are local to my network. So for me this is a valid question.
    - arvindamirtaa 6y ago
      Could you switch DNS providers if one fails? Could you have a fallback? What's the parallel here?
      - macintux 6y ago
        The original statement I was objecting to was this: > It is my computer and it should just work how it is meant to be without any external dependencies. DNS is an external dependency, regardless of the level of redundancy.
        arvindamirtaa 6y ago
        Yes. Verbatim that's what it says. But I think we can safely assume from context that the author meant external dependencies mandated by Apple.
- torstenvl 6y ago
  Extraordinary amounts of work are done without DNS. And even if it weren't, this is nothing like DNS because you can choose your own DNS servers and most people have a primary and a fallback. Where can I set trustd to use a different OCSP server? What is Apple's recommended secondary OCSP server?
  - Shared404 6y ago
    This is a more important point than those of us talking about working offline. A single point of failure, whether local or remote is an unfortunate design decision.
- FpUser 6y ago
  Is this even serious question? You really think I need DNS to edit my photos, videos, write some music, compile / build my products etc. etc ? And if needed for many things I can use my own DNS services. To post my freshly built product I do not need Apple's DNS. Can do with my own.
- Shared404 6y ago
  > How long can you perform useful work without DNS? Month's on end. Is this a serious question?
zepto 6y ago
This is an extremely reasonable criticism. Quite unlike most of the critiques we saw on the original post.
- xvector 6y ago
  Wait, how is “information on which apps you are using can be determined by Apple and/or the government” not valid criticism?
  - zepto 6y ago
    Where did I say it isn’t? I have agreed with that criticism elsewhere. I also think unencrypted iCloud backups are a very serious problem.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

torstenvl 6y ago

99.9% is far too unreliable for something so fundamental as whether you can run programs on your own computer, especially when the downtime is unscheduled and occurs in the middle of the day. It should be at least five nines, preferably six nines. Anything less than that is absolutely inexcusable.

alpaca128 6y ago
It's indeed interesting how on one side cloud computing is supposed to be reliable and scalable, but then one of the largest and richest corporations which also runs their own cloud storage fails to keep such an essential service running. I don't claim to understand every part of such an OCSP system, but I expect a reliable fallback when millions of devices worldwide assume a 100% uptime.

FpUser 6y ago

>"...and it works well 99.9%..." Can I please have a reference confirming this number >"...It's not like Apple is doing this to track users." And you of course have reliable inside source who can confirm this.

FpUser 6y ago
And of course downvote without having shred of evidence supporting the original claims.
- torstenvl 6y ago
  You're getting downvoted because your comment seems like trolling. The reason it seems like trolling is that the information you're demanding "evidence" for is: - the number of elapsed hours since October 7, 2019, when Catalina was released and OCSP became mandatory - the number of hours of outage the other day - how division works None of these seem to be fairly in dispute.
  - FpUser 6y ago
    Yup. I am wrong on 1st point. Did not think it through. Sorry. Still 99.9% is too much as the others have already pointed out. The other point (tracking users) I think still stands.