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Most people didn't get it yet. The average Joe from working class doesn't think immigrants are incapable - probably the opposite. His problem is that they may

Most people didn't get it yet. The average Joe from working class doesn't think immigrants are incapable - probably the opposite. His problem is that they may take his job and his life will not improve because one of them built a Dropbox.

loceng 6y ago
And this ties into a problem that Eric Weinstein is trying to bring attention to that the whole of society importing talent/allowing them to tap into the network and stability should be getting a dividend from that talent's produce, along with the misunderstanding that it's technology and automation taking jobs away. The main part of the solution is UBI - or as Andrew Yang calls it, a Freedom Dividend - citizens as shareholders.
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  How exactly does UBI work when you remove the upper boundary of recipients via immigration?
  - loceng 6y ago
    Can you explain in more detail what you mean?
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      If you have a UBI, everyone with a lower quality of life will attempt to gain entry to your country to receive the entitlement, and there are only so many resources to go around. You can’t have strong entitlements and liberal immigration policy.
      - loceng 6y ago
        Legal citizens will get it, not anyone who shows up.
        erichocean 6y ago
        California would like a word…
        toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Downvoted, but California legislated (Immigrant Worker Protection Act) to penalize employers who report illegal immigrants to ICE while providing healthcare benefits to non citizens.
        erichocean 6y ago
        More egregious was how California handled Prop 187 in 1994, which effectively banned the state from providing taxpayer-funded services to illegal aliens. [0] Long story short: the amendment passed, was challenged in court, the state decided not to defend it, and that resulted in the amendment being overturned in the courts. Illegal aliens today have incredibly broad access to taxpayer-funded services in California. It's frustrating. People are constantly saying the people of California deserve the current social situation—because they "voted for it"—but the truth is they voted against it and were simply overruled and betrayed by their own Government. If the government is unresponsive to the will of the people, what, exactly are the people supposed to do (short of an armed rebellion)? What they've actually done is move to other states… [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_California_Proposition_187 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_California_Proposition_18...
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
jollofricepeas 6y ago
Exactly. The problem is more deeply rooted in the human condition namely fear and envy. Yes, the average Joe doesn’t want an immigrant taking his job but mainly the average Joe doesn’t want to feel as if he’s below average. “People are not, for example, terribly anxious to be equal (equal, after all, to what and to whom?) but they love the idea of being superior.” -James Baldwin
- loceng 6y ago
  What if the fear is real though - fear of survival - how is that a problem in itself? With Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs - if base needs are met the envy-jealousy-anger will turn into inspiration, as one example. To copy/paste what my other reply said: And this ties into a problem that Eric Weinstein is trying to bring attention to that the whole of society importing talent/allowing them to tap into the network and stability should be getting a dividend from that talent's produce, along with the misunderstanding that it's technology and automation taking jobs away. The main part of the solution is UBI - or as Andrew Yang calls it, a Freedom Dividend - citizens as shareholders.
  - jollofricepeas 6y ago
    That’s a rather simplistic view. For one, your base needs might be food and shelter but within Average Joe’s social circle his base needs may be... - Ford F-150 - Cable TV - Time for hobbies - NASCAR tickets UBI doesn’t solve for people’s need to be superior. Solution: Cap executive pay and return more shareholder value/wealth to employees. You’re not going to achieve equality but you can make sure that more wealth is returned to society while preserving their need for superiority. “The bottom 80% of Americans own 8% of stock market wealth and the bottom half own essentially zero.” - Andrew Yang
    - loceng 6y ago
      UBI will help curb early suffering that leads to most people's minds and hearts not being open, where they find unhealthy coping mechanisms to feel better - such as the need to feel superior because they have low to no self-esteem (internal vs. external). Otherwise there is a path to healing old trauma to undo such ego mind coping mechanisms.
kazinator 6y ago
If he has to deal with someone sending him files via Dropbox, his life will definitely not improve.
- arnoldsing 6y ago
  I lol'd
- jonsno56 6y ago
  this is funny
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pratik661 6y ago
My personal (unsubstantiated) theory is that people don't vote with their economic interests. They vote with their social interests (is the narrative that this candidate selling cause my relative social position to rise or decline?) This can explain why affluent urban professionals, whose economic and social position is relatively secure might vote for liberal economic and social policies. They live in a world where their marriage is more likely to be stable, their opinion is more likely to be taken seriously, and their values are more likely to be validated by movies/TV/media. More immigration is not going to diminish his/her relative position in society. It might even make it higher as a lot of these immigrants aspire to be in that professionals' position. On the other hand, it can also explain why some working class white and Hispanic voters might vote for candidates/policies that sell a narrative of traditional values (anti abortion, church + family in place of a gov't social safety net, etc). They live in a world where their families are less likely to be stable, and where their values are increasingly looked down upon in movies/tv/media. Greater immigration might diminish their relative position in society (even if it makes them slightly richer .... ). There might even be greater competition for admission for their children into T25 schools (which are lately seen as gatekeepers into the "affluent urban professional" class).
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  Greater immigration has a direct impact on non-skilled labor, especially illegal immigration when your competitor pays people under the table. This is especially true with the manufacturing class, which has watched foreign factories whittle and carve away at them for two decades. I think the people who voted this way were definitely thinking of their economic position and not social position.
daltonlp 6y ago
An article about precisely this: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/08/tennessee-valley-authority-new-deal https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/08/tennessee-valley-authorit...

loceng 6y ago

And this ties into a problem that Eric Weinstein is trying to bring attention to that the whole of society importing talent/allowing them to tap into the network and stability should be getting a dividend from that talent's produce, along with the misunderstanding that it's technology and automation taking jobs away. The main part of the solution is UBI - or as Andrew Yang calls it, a Freedom Dividend - citizens as shareholders.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago
How exactly does UBI work when you remove the upper boundary of recipients via immigration?
- loceng 6y ago
  Can you explain in more detail what you mean?
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    If you have a UBI, everyone with a lower quality of life will attempt to gain entry to your country to receive the entitlement, and there are only so many resources to go around. You can’t have strong entitlements and liberal immigration policy.
    - loceng 6y ago
      Legal citizens will get it, not anyone who shows up.
      - erichocean 6y ago
        California would like a word…
        toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Downvoted, but California legislated (Immigrant Worker Protection Act) to penalize employers who report illegal immigrants to ICE while providing healthcare benefits to non citizens.
        erichocean 6y ago
        More egregious was how California handled Prop 187 in 1994, which effectively banned the state from providing taxpayer-funded services to illegal aliens. [0] Long story short: the amendment passed, was challenged in court, the state decided not to defend it, and that resulted in the amendment being overturned in the courts. Illegal aliens today have incredibly broad access to taxpayer-funded services in California. It's frustrating. People are constantly saying the people of California deserve the current social situation—because they "voted for it"—but the truth is they voted against it and were simply overruled and betrayed by their own Government. If the government is unresponsive to the will of the people, what, exactly are the people supposed to do (short of an armed rebellion)? What they've actually done is move to other states… [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_California_Proposition_187 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_California_Proposition_18...
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]

jollofricepeas 6y ago

Exactly. The problem is more deeply rooted in the human condition namely fear and envy. Yes, the average Joe doesn’t want an immigrant taking his job but mainly the average Joe doesn’t want to feel as if he’s below average. “People are not, for example, terribly anxious to be equal (equal, after all, to what and to whom?) but they love the idea of being superior.” -James Baldwin

loceng 6y ago
What if the fear is real though - fear of survival - how is that a problem in itself? With Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs - if base needs are met the envy-jealousy-anger will turn into inspiration, as one example. To copy/paste what my other reply said: And this ties into a problem that Eric Weinstein is trying to bring attention to that the whole of society importing talent/allowing them to tap into the network and stability should be getting a dividend from that talent's produce, along with the misunderstanding that it's technology and automation taking jobs away. The main part of the solution is UBI - or as Andrew Yang calls it, a Freedom Dividend - citizens as shareholders.
- jollofricepeas 6y ago
  That’s a rather simplistic view. For one, your base needs might be food and shelter but within Average Joe’s social circle his base needs may be... - Ford F-150 - Cable TV - Time for hobbies - NASCAR tickets UBI doesn’t solve for people’s need to be superior. Solution: Cap executive pay and return more shareholder value/wealth to employees. You’re not going to achieve equality but you can make sure that more wealth is returned to society while preserving their need for superiority. “The bottom 80% of Americans own 8% of stock market wealth and the bottom half own essentially zero.” - Andrew Yang
  - loceng 6y ago
    UBI will help curb early suffering that leads to most people's minds and hearts not being open, where they find unhealthy coping mechanisms to feel better - such as the need to feel superior because they have low to no self-esteem (internal vs. external). Otherwise there is a path to healing old trauma to undo such ego mind coping mechanisms.

kazinator 6y ago

If he has to deal with someone sending him files via Dropbox, his life will definitely not improve.

arnoldsing 6y ago
I lol'd
jonsno56 6y ago
this is funny

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

pratik661 6y ago

My personal (unsubstantiated) theory is that people don't vote with their economic interests. They vote with their social interests (is the narrative that this candidate selling cause my relative social position to rise or decline?) This can explain why affluent urban professionals, whose economic and social position is relatively secure might vote for liberal economic and social policies. They live in a world where their marriage is more likely to be stable, their opinion is more likely to be taken seriously, and their values are more likely to be validated by movies/TV/media. More immigration is not going to diminish his/her relative position in society. It might even make it higher as a lot of these immigrants aspire to be in that professionals' position. On the other hand, it can also explain why some working class white and Hispanic voters might vote for candidates/policies that sell a narrative of traditional values (anti abortion, church + family in place of a gov't social safety net, etc). They live in a world where their families are less likely to be stable, and where their values are increasingly looked down upon in movies/tv/media. Greater immigration might diminish their relative position in society (even if it makes them slightly richer .... ). There might even be greater competition for admission for their children into T25 schools (which are lately seen as gatekeepers into the "affluent urban professional" class).

ed25519FUUU 6y ago
Greater immigration has a direct impact on non-skilled labor, especially illegal immigration when your competitor pays people under the table. This is especially true with the manufacturing class, which has watched foreign factories whittle and carve away at them for two decades. I think the people who voted this way were definitely thinking of their economic position and not social position.

daltonlp 6y ago

An article about precisely this: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/08/tennessee-valley-authority-new-deal https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/08/tennessee-valley-authorit...