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What about the blue collar workers that are living in RVs in the Bay Area? Are they buying silk socks? I feel like capitalism is overly celebrated by those who

What about the blue collar workers that are living in RVs in the Bay Area? Are they buying silk socks? I feel like capitalism is overly celebrated by those who benefit from it, to their detriment. The meritocracy is failing, capitalism is failing, and I’m concerned about will replace capitalism if we continue to brush off the harsh realities of its failings.

chordalkeyboard 6y ago
Our perspective is that others are prevented from enjoying those same benefits by the regulatory interference that is ostensibly intended to help them. We don't see it as capitalism failing, but the regulatory state failing and capitalism being distorted thus. we are also concerned about capitalism's replacement. except we fear the continued suppression of market action to lead to authoritarian totalitarianism because the regulatory state appears to have been captured by oligarchs.
- randmeerkat 6y ago
  Thank you for your honest perspective, I’ll spend some time contemplating it.
- Ar-Curunir 6y ago
  Capitalism requires the state to function. If you don’t have violent enforcement of property rights, how will capitalists make money?
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    Violence as a tool exclusive to the state is a social construct much like property and so I expect the norms surrounding private property to be maintained like other constructs, through intentioned participation.
barry-cotter 6y ago
> What about the blue collar workers that are living in RVs in the Bay Area? Not a failure of capitalism. If you make building more housing illegal the price of the existing stock will get bid up. Remember, Tokyo has grown 50% in population over the last two decades and rent and house prices have been basically flat throughout. Zoning makes housing expensive, not capitalism.
- cbmuser 6y ago
  Exactly. Zoning and rent control laws like they were recently introduced in Berlin, Germany. The number of available apartments on the market has declined ever since that law was introduced.
  - kuschku 6y ago
    But that's not true. Building new housing, no matter how large, would be a losing proposition, as you'd have to pay for the land, which is expensive, and building lots of apartments would increase the supply, reducing the value of your land and building. I've lived in a european city without rent control and mostly even without zoning laws (less than 20% of kiel are affected by Bebaungsplänen) and yet rent was even higher and supply even lower. Hundreds of hotels, lots of luxury apartments, but for the average citizen, nothing got built. Capitalism doesn't optimize for producing the most supply, it optimizes for increasing the value of your assets. And if the best way to do so is by artificially limiting the supply, that's exactly what's gonna happen.
    - randmeerkat 6y ago
      > Capitalism doesn't optimize for producing the most supply, it optimizes for increasing the value of your assets. And if the best way to do so is by artificially limiting the supply, that's exactly what's gonna happen. This is very well said. Here’s an article specifically talking about how fashion brands destroy their own products to drive up prices: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/9/17/17852294/fashion-brands-burning-merchandise-burberry-nike-h-and-m https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/9/17/17852294/fashion-bra... This is the kind of stuff that makes me think society is in late stage capitalism.

chordalkeyboard 6y ago

Our perspective is that others are prevented from enjoying those same benefits by the regulatory interference that is ostensibly intended to help them. We don't see it as capitalism failing, but the regulatory state failing and capitalism being distorted thus. we are also concerned about capitalism's replacement. except we fear the continued suppression of market action to lead to authoritarian totalitarianism because the regulatory state appears to have been captured by oligarchs.

randmeerkat 6y ago
Thank you for your honest perspective, I’ll spend some time contemplating it.
Ar-Curunir 6y ago
Capitalism requires the state to function. If you don’t have violent enforcement of property rights, how will capitalists make money?
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  Violence as a tool exclusive to the state is a social construct much like property and so I expect the norms surrounding private property to be maintained like other constructs, through intentioned participation.

barry-cotter 6y ago

> What about the blue collar workers that are living in RVs in the Bay Area? Not a failure of capitalism. If you make building more housing illegal the price of the existing stock will get bid up. Remember, Tokyo has grown 50% in population over the last two decades and rent and house prices have been basically flat throughout. Zoning makes housing expensive, not capitalism.

cbmuser 6y ago
Exactly. Zoning and rent control laws like they were recently introduced in Berlin, Germany. The number of available apartments on the market has declined ever since that law was introduced.
- kuschku 6y ago
  But that's not true. Building new housing, no matter how large, would be a losing proposition, as you'd have to pay for the land, which is expensive, and building lots of apartments would increase the supply, reducing the value of your land and building. I've lived in a european city without rent control and mostly even without zoning laws (less than 20% of kiel are affected by Bebaungsplänen) and yet rent was even higher and supply even lower. Hundreds of hotels, lots of luxury apartments, but for the average citizen, nothing got built. Capitalism doesn't optimize for producing the most supply, it optimizes for increasing the value of your assets. And if the best way to do so is by artificially limiting the supply, that's exactly what's gonna happen.
  - randmeerkat 6y ago
    > Capitalism doesn't optimize for producing the most supply, it optimizes for increasing the value of your assets. And if the best way to do so is by artificially limiting the supply, that's exactly what's gonna happen. This is very well said. Here’s an article specifically talking about how fashion brands destroy their own products to drive up prices: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/9/17/17852294/fashion-brands-burning-merchandise-burberry-nike-h-and-m https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/9/17/17852294/fashion-bra... This is the kind of stuff that makes me think society is in late stage capitalism.