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> Dealerships will update the vehicle’s battery software beginning next week. Sound like you get to drive it in to the dealership anyway. If I remember correc

> Dealerships will update the vehicle’s battery software beginning next week. Sound like you get to drive it in to the dealership anyway. If I remember correctly some of the dealership agreements mandate that the dealer handles software updates preventing some manufacturers from legally being able to OTA without dealer involvement.

archi42 6y ago
Another point seems to be upgrade fees - e.g. with Volvo I have to pay for the dealers diagnostics software subscription, for the actual software update itself (yes, really), and for the time it takes because it blocks a slot in the dealers garage (and the diagnostics system). Upgrades effectively easily cost 700 Euro per year, and they can't even tell me what's actually changed (at least it's optional). If we only had the technology to roll out tamperproof updates, even if it was via a USB stick... /s (At least the map updates happen exactly that way). Ergo, I'm under the impression they're really just only using this to siphon more money from the customers.
- fyfy18 6y ago
  This is for non-mandatory updates - things like navigation and updates to a slightly less crappy UI. For safety recalls the dealer bills the manufacturer for their time, so as the customer you don't need to pay anything (other than your time to take the car to the dealer). I have a 3rd hand Toyota, and after I bought it I noticed none of the recalls had been done. I called up my local dealer, they ordered the parts, then two weeks later they replaced airbags, fuel tank lid and updated the ECU without me having to pay anything.
  - archi42 6y ago
    Oh, the paid updates might affect the infotainment system, but might also affect the ECU instead - at least as far as I'm aware, and then of course this might vary depending on the model year. Updates as part of a recall are free.
numpad0 6y ago
That sucks... but at the other end of the spectrum, Tesla have had issues with cars running into walls while the driver was enjoying self driving OTA content, or cars catching fire after new fast charging OTA content, in neither of the cases they issued recalls as legally defined. So I’m not so sure whether manufacturers should be allowed direct OTA updates without recalls or heavy regulatory oversights. Boeing could have designed MCAS on 737 MAX so that the company can rewrite its behaviors covertly and remotely, except that that isn’t how airplanes work. Why should it be how cars work?
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  > I’m not so sure whether manufacturers should be allowed direct OTA updates without recalls or heavy regulatory oversights. I think there probably should be some oversight, but not all ECU updates are serious enough to warrant an official recall. Sometimes they're just cosmetic changes or improvements to the head unit's user interface. Sometimes they're bug fixes for convenience features that are not a risk to the operation of the vehicle. Sometimes they're compliance related (ex. Volvo updated my headunit so that the 360 surround camera view couldn't be the default view when shifting into reverse (a US law requires that the backup camera is seen when shifting into reverse).
mkhpalm 6y ago
FCA will let you do your own software updates as long as you buy their micropod. I'll have to look up which ones require dealerships because thats a bit strange to me. A lot of dealerships have a guy they call to come do flashes for them. Usually an independent contractor that circles around dealerships of every make flashing things for everybody.

archi42 6y ago

Another point seems to be upgrade fees - e.g. with Volvo I have to pay for the dealers diagnostics software subscription, for the actual software update itself (yes, really), and for the time it takes because it blocks a slot in the dealers garage (and the diagnostics system). Upgrades effectively easily cost 700 Euro per year, and they can't even tell me what's actually changed (at least it's optional). If we only had the technology to roll out tamperproof updates, even if it was via a USB stick... /s (At least the map updates happen exactly that way). Ergo, I'm under the impression they're really just only using this to siphon more money from the customers.

fyfy18 6y ago
This is for non-mandatory updates - things like navigation and updates to a slightly less crappy UI. For safety recalls the dealer bills the manufacturer for their time, so as the customer you don't need to pay anything (other than your time to take the car to the dealer). I have a 3rd hand Toyota, and after I bought it I noticed none of the recalls had been done. I called up my local dealer, they ordered the parts, then two weeks later they replaced airbags, fuel tank lid and updated the ECU without me having to pay anything.
- archi42 6y ago
  Oh, the paid updates might affect the infotainment system, but might also affect the ECU instead - at least as far as I'm aware, and then of course this might vary depending on the model year. Updates as part of a recall are free.

numpad0 6y ago

That sucks... but at the other end of the spectrum, Tesla have had issues with cars running into walls while the driver was enjoying self driving OTA content, or cars catching fire after new fast charging OTA content, in neither of the cases they issued recalls as legally defined. So I’m not so sure whether manufacturers should be allowed direct OTA updates without recalls or heavy regulatory oversights. Boeing could have designed MCAS on 737 MAX so that the company can rewrite its behaviors covertly and remotely, except that that isn’t how airplanes work. Why should it be how cars work?

bonestamp2 6y ago
> I’m not so sure whether manufacturers should be allowed direct OTA updates without recalls or heavy regulatory oversights. I think there probably should be some oversight, but not all ECU updates are serious enough to warrant an official recall. Sometimes they're just cosmetic changes or improvements to the head unit's user interface. Sometimes they're bug fixes for convenience features that are not a risk to the operation of the vehicle. Sometimes they're compliance related (ex. Volvo updated my headunit so that the 360 surround camera view couldn't be the default view when shifting into reverse (a US law requires that the backup camera is seen when shifting into reverse).

mkhpalm 6y ago

FCA will let you do your own software updates as long as you buy their micropod. I'll have to look up which ones require dealerships because thats a bit strange to me. A lot of dealerships have a guy they call to come do flashes for them. Usually an independent contractor that circles around dealerships of every make flashing things for everybody.