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Tragedy does befall humanity from time to time, but you're arguing for comforting those who make selfish choices that make things worse for everyone. This is n

Tragedy does befall humanity from time to time, but you're arguing for comforting those who make selfish choices that make things worse for everyone. This is not like the AIDS crisis; the medical system was not at risk of collapsing. What of empathy for those who have and will needlessly die alone in tents and hospital hallways and their grieving families who don't get to say goodbye? What of empathy for the medical staff who are working 12, 24, or 36 hour shifts with no end in sight? What of empathy for those who stock our shelves who are constantly put at risk? What empathy for an entire generation of children who will have worse educational attainment because they're forced to do a year or more of remote school? But sure, let's empathize with someone who keeps eating out and refuses to wear a mask. It's not like they could have done anything to mitigate the tragedy that's going on, right?

gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
> This is not like the AIDS crisis; the medical system was not at risk of collapsing. Neither is it now? Even at the peak in NYC, the Javits center was never filled, nor the hospital ships. Likewise in the UK the nightingale hospitals were never used. Should we be wary at all of our propensity for stigmatizing people with disease(especially a viral one)? Should we berate anyone who gets HIV when they could have worn a condom?
- wins32767 6y ago
  https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/11/third-surge-breaking-healthcare-workers/617091/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/11/third-sur... > The entire state of Iowa is now out of staffed beds, Eli Perencevich, an infectious-disease doctor at the University of Iowa, told me. Worse is coming. Iowa is accumulating more than 3,600 confirmed cases every day; relative to its population, that’s more than twice the rate Arizona experienced during its summer peak, “when their system was near collapse,” Perencevich said. With only lax policies in place, those cases will continue to rise. Hospitalizations lag behind cases by about two weeks; by Thanksgiving, today’s soaring cases will be overwhelming hospitals that already cannot cope. “The wave hasn’t even crashed down on us yet,” Perencevich said. “It keeps rising and rising, and we’re all running on fear. The health-care system in Iowa is going to collapse, no question.” Most of the US is likely to have their medical systems collapse this winter. That will lead to thousands of preventable deaths. Stigmatizing people with HIV was bad because it was a proxy for stigmatizing gay men. Stigmatizing people who don't wear masks is stigmatizing anti-social behavior.
  - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
    > Most of the US is likely to have their medical systems collapse this winter. Let's put a remind-me on this one.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Most of the US is likely to have their medical systems collapse this winter. “Collapse” is too terse and paints a potentially misleading picture of the problem; “be overwhelmed and forced to ration care on bases other than medical need, such as expected future quantity and quality of life and chance of recovery” and “face significantly reduced total capacity because of COVID-19 impacts on staff” would be more precise.
    - wins32767 6y ago
      Fair. A key indicator is the death rate of patients hospitalized with COVID. It's been driven down significantly since the start of the pandemic, but if the fatality rate of those hospitalized starts climbing that's the system starting to fail.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > > This is not like the AIDS crisis; the medical system was not at risk of collapsing. > Neither is it now? https://www.grandforksherald.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6753876-With-North-Dakota-hospitals-at-100-capacity-Burgum-announces-COVID-positive-nurses-can-stay-at-work https://www.grandforksherald.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6753876-... https://dcist.com/story/20/11/13/dc-hospitals-covid19-metrics-capacity-region/ https://dcist.com/story/20/11/13/dc-hospitals-covid19-metric... https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-midwest/2020/11/12/90508b72-250f-11eb-952e-0c475972cfc0_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-midwest/... https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/11/13/across-alaska-as-the-pandemic-sends-more-staff-home-hospitals-prepare-for-the-worst/ https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/11/13/across-alaska-as-the... https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2020/11/13/covid-updates-nevada-reno-hospitals-overwhelmed-virus-spread/6271909002/ https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2020/11/13/covid-updates-neva... https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/2020/11/13/coronavirus-johnson-county-iowa-officials-emergency-meeting/6272737002/ https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/2020/11/13/coronavi... https://www.nbcrightnow.com/news/oregon-gov-kate-brown-announces-14-day-statewide-freeze/video_461a93b0-25ee-11eb-aac7-53f4113bf1bc.html https://www.nbcrightnow.com/news/oregon-gov-kate-brown-annou... https://m.startribune.com/twin-cities-icu-space-at-red-alert-as-virus-cases-hit-record/572970942/?clmob=y&c=n https://m.startribune.com/twin-cities-icu-space-at-red-alert... > Even at the peak in NYC, the Javits center was never filled, nor the hospital ships Yeah, whatever, that was months ago, and, leaving aside the debates about how meaningful that observation was at the time (which was argued quite a bit here on HN), that's not, and not relevant to, the current situation or forward risks. Right now medical systems in a lot of the country are exceeding capacity and turning away patients who would normally be hospitalized or treated due to the impact COVID-19 is happening.
  - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
    I'm going to guess this plays out like every place around the world so far. It's extremely tough for a while as a population experiences their wave and then the virus essentially becomes endemic. But every place so far around the world has gotten through their wave.
    - wins32767 6y ago

gnusty_gnurc 6y ago

> This is not like the AIDS crisis; the medical system was not at risk of collapsing. Neither is it now? Even at the peak in NYC, the Javits center was never filled, nor the hospital ships. Likewise in the UK the nightingale hospitals were never used. Should we be wary at all of our propensity for stigmatizing people with disease(especially a viral one)? Should we berate anyone who gets HIV when they could have worn a condom?

wins32767 6y ago
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/11/third-surge-breaking-healthcare-workers/617091/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/11/third-sur... > The entire state of Iowa is now out of staffed beds, Eli Perencevich, an infectious-disease doctor at the University of Iowa, told me. Worse is coming. Iowa is accumulating more than 3,600 confirmed cases every day; relative to its population, that’s more than twice the rate Arizona experienced during its summer peak, “when their system was near collapse,” Perencevich said. With only lax policies in place, those cases will continue to rise. Hospitalizations lag behind cases by about two weeks; by Thanksgiving, today’s soaring cases will be overwhelming hospitals that already cannot cope. “The wave hasn’t even crashed down on us yet,” Perencevich said. “It keeps rising and rising, and we’re all running on fear. The health-care system in Iowa is going to collapse, no question.” Most of the US is likely to have their medical systems collapse this winter. That will lead to thousands of preventable deaths. Stigmatizing people with HIV was bad because it was a proxy for stigmatizing gay men. Stigmatizing people who don't wear masks is stigmatizing anti-social behavior.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  > Most of the US is likely to have their medical systems collapse this winter. Let's put a remind-me on this one.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Most of the US is likely to have their medical systems collapse this winter. “Collapse” is too terse and paints a potentially misleading picture of the problem; “be overwhelmed and forced to ration care on bases other than medical need, such as expected future quantity and quality of life and chance of recovery” and “face significantly reduced total capacity because of COVID-19 impacts on staff” would be more precise.
  - wins32767 6y ago
    Fair. A key indicator is the death rate of patients hospitalized with COVID. It's been driven down significantly since the start of the pandemic, but if the fatality rate of those hospitalized starts climbing that's the system starting to fail.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> > This is not like the AIDS crisis; the medical system was not at risk of collapsing. > Neither is it now? https://www.grandforksherald.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6753876-With-North-Dakota-hospitals-at-100-capacity-Burgum-announces-COVID-positive-nurses-can-stay-at-work https://www.grandforksherald.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6753876-... https://dcist.com/story/20/11/13/dc-hospitals-covid19-metrics-capacity-region/ https://dcist.com/story/20/11/13/dc-hospitals-covid19-metric... https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-midwest/2020/11/12/90508b72-250f-11eb-952e-0c475972cfc0_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-midwest/... https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/11/13/across-alaska-as-the-pandemic-sends-more-staff-home-hospitals-prepare-for-the-worst/ https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/11/13/across-alaska-as-the... https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2020/11/13/covid-updates-nevada-reno-hospitals-overwhelmed-virus-spread/6271909002/ https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2020/11/13/covid-updates-neva... https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/2020/11/13/coronavirus-johnson-county-iowa-officials-emergency-meeting/6272737002/ https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/2020/11/13/coronavi... https://www.nbcrightnow.com/news/oregon-gov-kate-brown-announces-14-day-statewide-freeze/video_461a93b0-25ee-11eb-aac7-53f4113bf1bc.html https://www.nbcrightnow.com/news/oregon-gov-kate-brown-annou... https://m.startribune.com/twin-cities-icu-space-at-red-alert-as-virus-cases-hit-record/572970942/?clmob=y&c=n https://m.startribune.com/twin-cities-icu-space-at-red-alert... > Even at the peak in NYC, the Javits center was never filled, nor the hospital ships Yeah, whatever, that was months ago, and, leaving aside the debates about how meaningful that observation was at the time (which was argued quite a bit here on HN), that's not, and not relevant to, the current situation or forward risks. Right now medical systems in a lot of the country are exceeding capacity and turning away patients who would normally be hospitalized or treated due to the impact COVID-19 is happening.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  I'm going to guess this plays out like every place around the world so far. It's extremely tough for a while as a population experiences their wave and then the virus essentially becomes endemic. But every place so far around the world has gotten through their wave.
  - wins32767 6y ago