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> A few of the brighter bulbs in sustainable agriculture treat their animals more like you might an intern. > Except for the whole bad day at the end. It's ab

> A few of the brighter bulbs in sustainable agriculture treat their animals more like you might an intern. > Except for the whole bad day at the end. It's about animal exploitation as a whole. Any commoditization of sentient beings is a bad thing. We don't need to, when it comes to a choice (especially in this forum), we can choose to not be a part of that system. > Most of these fad diet folks have this stuff all wrong. We didn't eat all fruits and nuts. We didn't eat all meat. We ate a steady diet of opportunistic foods, and meat was a supplement to our nutrition. Stopping exploitation isn't a diet fad. Some people might confuse it though. We don't need to be opportunistic now. > To be a vegan requires you to use a global supply system for your food, which has its own carbon footprint problems. Sure, and we can do better on many fronts. But animal exploitation is one of the main contributors to climate change. We're already using a global supply chain for animals, which includes all the growth of food in other countries to ship to them. > It has been asserted, sometimes as a throwaway line, in a number of historical documentaries I've seen, that part of structural classism in the middle ages was denying meat to the working class, leading to developmental delays. Malnutrition made them dumber. Easier to control. 'Course, they gave themselves gout in the process... Historically what we have done should not impact our current ability of choices. We can live on a healthy vegan diet. Structural classism also includes the current worker in the meat industry. https://www.livekindly.co/slaughterhouse-workers-victims-meat-industry/ https://www.livekindly.co/slaughterhouse-workers-victims-mea... In terms of malnutrition people can live on a healthy diet while vegan. https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/british-dietetic-association-confirms-well-planned-vegan-diets-can-support-healthy-living-in-people-of-all-ages.html https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/british-dietetic-association... There's a lot of information here https://www.cowspiracy.com/facts https://www.cowspiracy.com/facts There are plenty of videos explaining stuff about exploitation. Dominion is free on youtube. In terms of youtubers Earthling Ed is a good watch. Most importantly, it's easy and one of the single most impactful decisions we can individually make on a daily basis

hinkley 6y ago
The biggest mistake we have been making is in thinking we can exploit the land and plants without also exploiting the rest of the food chain. Those large fields of grain exist only because virtually nothing else lives there, trying to eat it. That's not even exploitation really, it's genocide. Suicidal genocide. We remove the entire food web and then essentially grow crops hydroponically (all nutrients provided externally, the main value of the substrate is in supporting the plant structurally and not being particularly biologically active). Losing the biodiversity is a crime, but the biggest waste is in losing all of the services that food web provides, from aeration to pest control to fertilizer, then burning fossil fuels by the supertanker-full to emulate them. Currently we are the only apex predator we will tolerate, so whatever we put back together underneath us needs to be something we know how to work with (you don't have to eat herd animals to get them to behave like a herd, but they need to believe you will). > We don't need to be opportunistic now. I struggled with which parts of your reply to call out directly. Thought about not doing it at all, but this statement is, after a fashion, the fulcrum of an extremely important disagreement. We need to do this most of all. We've become intellectually, emotionally, and thus ethically divorced from the source of our food. It's a big part of why people are so cavalier about all of the sins you've stated and most you've inferred. Eating locally and seasonally is unequivocally 'opportunistic' eating, and one of the few ways we know of getting people to think about the food they eat. Properly think, not merely react to being lectured at by the same people you're parroting. Shame never works, but it very much isn't going to work here, and the stakes are far too high to waste time on people who don't understand this. Those Chilean strawberries aren't just a carbon footprint problem. They are poster children to a system of magic, detached thinking about food, and a complete disregard for nature and our place - no, membership - in it. If you have kids, get them excited about foods in the season that Nature usually makes them available. For me, I started with mandarin oranges. "Oh November is almost here. You know what that means? SATSUMAS!" Build from there. Teaching is a great opportunity to learn things yourself.

hinkley 6y ago

The biggest mistake we have been making is in thinking we can exploit the land and plants without also exploiting the rest of the food chain. Those large fields of grain exist only because virtually nothing else lives there, trying to eat it. That's not even exploitation really, it's genocide. Suicidal genocide. We remove the entire food web and then essentially grow crops hydroponically (all nutrients provided externally, the main value of the substrate is in supporting the plant structurally and not being particularly biologically active). Losing the biodiversity is a crime, but the biggest waste is in losing all of the services that food web provides, from aeration to pest control to fertilizer, then burning fossil fuels by the supertanker-full to emulate them. Currently we are the only apex predator we will tolerate, so whatever we put back together underneath us needs to be something we know how to work with (you don't have to eat herd animals to get them to behave like a herd, but they need to believe you will). > We don't need to be opportunistic now. I struggled with which parts of your reply to call out directly. Thought about not doing it at all, but this statement is, after a fashion, the fulcrum of an extremely important disagreement. We need to do this most of all. We've become intellectually, emotionally, and thus ethically divorced from the source of our food. It's a big part of why people are so cavalier about all of the sins you've stated and most you've inferred. Eating locally and seasonally is unequivocally 'opportunistic' eating, and one of the few ways we know of getting people to think about the food they eat. Properly think, not merely react to being lectured at by the same people you're parroting. Shame never works, but it very much isn't going to work here, and the stakes are far too high to waste time on people who don't understand this. Those Chilean strawberries aren't just a carbon footprint problem. They are poster children to a system of magic, detached thinking about food, and a complete disregard for nature and our place - no, membership - in it. If you have kids, get them excited about foods in the season that Nature usually makes them available. For me, I started with mandarin oranges. "Oh November is almost here. You know what that means? SATSUMAS!" Build from there. Teaching is a great opportunity to learn things yourself.