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When software companies switch to on-demand flex labor at below minimum wage everyone on this site who supports Prop 22 will be singing a different tune.

esoterica 6y ago
It's already 100% legal to pay software engineers minimum wage, why don't the FAANGs of the world do it? Is it possible that the market forces set the floor on engineer wages, not the legal system?
- namesbc 6y ago
  Engineers have workers rights because labor activists fought for them and won.
randompwd 6y ago
A very irrational comment. Software engineering isn't something everybody in the country can do at the drop of a hat. If somebody wants to be a full time driver-employee, there are taxi firms/limousine companies/bus driving companies/courier companies. They don't want that though. They want the freedom that comes with picking your own hours using a low effort/common & widespread skill(driving a non-commercial vehicle). Also, the site fiverr and similar sites already exists(as well as entire outsourcing industries) if somebody does want to have their software developed by transient programmers.
Rebelgecko 6y ago
Prop 22 sets the base pay at 120% minimum wage
- namesbc 6y ago
  They only count hours that a customers is in the car when calculating that, so it comes out to about $5/hr minimum wage which is below federal minimum wage.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    That's not true at all. From the text of prop 22, the minimum wage covers the entire period "from when an app-based driver accepts a rideshare request or delivery request to when the app-based driver completes that rideshare request or delivery request." So it's true that if you're sitting outside an airport at 3am when no one is there you won't be getting paid. But as soon as a plane lands and you accept a passenger, you'll get paid for the time you spend driving to pick them up AND the time after you pick them up. Similarly, if you accept a food delivery in the app but the food isn't ready when you get to the restaurant, you'll get 120% minimum wage while waiting for the cook to finish
    - namesbc 6y ago
      The Uber/Lyft Ballot Initiative Guarantees only $5.64 an Hour https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initiative-guarantees-only-5-64-an-hour-2/ https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initia...
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - Rebelgecko 6y ago
        A few thoughts off the dome- That link contradicts your claim that drivers are only compensated for the time spent with passengers That link is attempting to calculate take-home pay after taxes, health insurance, etc. Minimum wage is pretax, so even regular employees aren't making minimum wage once they've paid for their income taxes, social security, Medicare, disability insurance and health insurance. Imo its nonsensical to compare gross against net pay

esoterica 6y ago

It's already 100% legal to pay software engineers minimum wage, why don't the FAANGs of the world do it? Is it possible that the market forces set the floor on engineer wages, not the legal system?

namesbc 6y ago
Engineers have workers rights because labor activists fought for them and won.

randompwd 6y ago

A very irrational comment. Software engineering isn't something everybody in the country can do at the drop of a hat. If somebody wants to be a full time driver-employee, there are taxi firms/limousine companies/bus driving companies/courier companies. They don't want that though. They want the freedom that comes with picking your own hours using a low effort/common & widespread skill(driving a non-commercial vehicle). Also, the site fiverr and similar sites already exists(as well as entire outsourcing industries) if somebody does want to have their software developed by transient programmers.

Rebelgecko 6y ago

Prop 22 sets the base pay at 120% minimum wage

namesbc 6y ago
They only count hours that a customers is in the car when calculating that, so it comes out to about $5/hr minimum wage which is below federal minimum wage.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  That's not true at all. From the text of prop 22, the minimum wage covers the entire period "from when an app-based driver accepts a rideshare request or delivery request to when the app-based driver completes that rideshare request or delivery request." So it's true that if you're sitting outside an airport at 3am when no one is there you won't be getting paid. But as soon as a plane lands and you accept a passenger, you'll get paid for the time you spend driving to pick them up AND the time after you pick them up. Similarly, if you accept a food delivery in the app but the food isn't ready when you get to the restaurant, you'll get 120% minimum wage while waiting for the cook to finish
  - namesbc 6y ago
    The Uber/Lyft Ballot Initiative Guarantees only $5.64 an Hour https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initiative-guarantees-only-5-64-an-hour-2/ https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initia...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - Rebelgecko 6y ago
      A few thoughts off the dome- That link contradicts your claim that drivers are only compensated for the time spent with passengers That link is attempting to calculate take-home pay after taxes, health insurance, etc. Minimum wage is pretax, so even regular employees aren't making minimum wage once they've paid for their income taxes, social security, Medicare, disability insurance and health insurance. Imo its nonsensical to compare gross against net pay