3 ms·

Gotta love how people will talk about how going to large gatherings is not just a personal choice during a pandemic but then if you tell them their demand for p

Gotta love how people will talk about how going to large gatherings is not just a personal choice during a pandemic but then if you tell them their demand for people to shove a bunch of birds in a damp warehouse with poor circulation and horrible conditions is going to cause the next flu pandemic it's somehow a personal choice. Not that being hypocritical is always bad but in this case there's zero introspection.

rdtwo 6y ago
Umm you got it backwards. Shoving birds into a sealed warehouse keeps diseases from spreading quite effectively. Letting birds free range and cross pollinate diseases with wild birds is how you get massive new outbreaks
- yboris 6y ago
  Are you aware that ~80% of antibiotics are used for animals? This and similar practices are making "super bugs" (bacteria that is resistant to treatment by most antibiotics). We may be on the cusp of a massive crisis.
- mikepurvis 6y ago
  This seemed counter-intuitive to me, and in particular I recalled a scene in the documentary Food Inc where an organic poultry farmer extolled how much cleaner it was to be processing meat in the open air rather than in an environment mediated by chemical sterilization. However, it does seem like this is a thing, in particular there was a Swedish study in 2009 that was referenced several times in media coverage and I can find no follow-up or rebuttal to: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090114200003.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090114200003.h... And then in 2014, an industry-focused article on how to mitigate some of these effects, in particular rodents: https://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/range-management-for-disease-control-guidelines-to-protect-your-freerange-flock-from-exotic-disease https://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/range-management-for...
- riverdroid 6y ago
  Seems like it could go both ways, couldn't it? Free ranging birds are in less proximity and healthier conditions. There is less contact between them, more sanitary conditions, and healthier birds. But yes, they could have more contact with outside pathogens. Whereas many poultry barns have thousands of chickens standing in their own excrement, shoulder to shoulder. There are even decaying corpses strewn about and being pecked. Whatever pathogens in there with them could spread and mutate readily, and the birds are likely less healthy and more vulnerable to it. I'm not sure if there is solid evidence to claim one is more risky than the other, but I think it would be the former.

rdtwo 6y ago

Umm you got it backwards. Shoving birds into a sealed warehouse keeps diseases from spreading quite effectively. Letting birds free range and cross pollinate diseases with wild birds is how you get massive new outbreaks

yboris 6y ago
Are you aware that ~80% of antibiotics are used for animals? This and similar practices are making "super bugs" (bacteria that is resistant to treatment by most antibiotics). We may be on the cusp of a massive crisis.
mikepurvis 6y ago
This seemed counter-intuitive to me, and in particular I recalled a scene in the documentary Food Inc where an organic poultry farmer extolled how much cleaner it was to be processing meat in the open air rather than in an environment mediated by chemical sterilization. However, it does seem like this is a thing, in particular there was a Swedish study in 2009 that was referenced several times in media coverage and I can find no follow-up or rebuttal to: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090114200003.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090114200003.h... And then in 2014, an industry-focused article on how to mitigate some of these effects, in particular rodents: https://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/range-management-for-disease-control-guidelines-to-protect-your-freerange-flock-from-exotic-disease https://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/range-management-for...
riverdroid 6y ago
Seems like it could go both ways, couldn't it? Free ranging birds are in less proximity and healthier conditions. There is less contact between them, more sanitary conditions, and healthier birds. But yes, they could have more contact with outside pathogens. Whereas many poultry barns have thousands of chickens standing in their own excrement, shoulder to shoulder. There are even decaying corpses strewn about and being pecked. Whatever pathogens in there with them could spread and mutate readily, and the birds are likely less healthy and more vulnerable to it. I'm not sure if there is solid evidence to claim one is more risky than the other, but I think it would be the former.