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the successor to UNIX wouldn’t have to be text. like, imagine a VR world with a lot of different tools that can operate on VR objects. Then ask yourself why des

the successor to UNIX wouldn’t have to be text. like, imagine a VR world with a lot of different tools that can operate on VR objects. Then ask yourself why desktop and phone UIs are little walled-off boxes that can’t interact with anything shared except saved files. but well, KSP is a game, and a GUI framework wouldn’t exist in that paradigm, so I’m not sure if I know what you’re getting at.

cercatrova 6y ago
Sounds like PowerShell to me, each part isn't text but its own object that every other script can manipulate.
jcelerier 6y ago
> and a GUI framework wouldn’t exist in that paradigm, there are UI frameworks in node-based environments where you connect little boxes between to each other to create buttons, text, clickable areas, etc. One of my jobs has been about migrating off that into more traditional OOP-based languages because it just sucks ten thousands less times when your UI starts to grow.
- jes5199 6y ago
  yeah, the nest of connected lines metaphor doesn't seem to work unless you have a very simple model. I keep thinking there must be some other spacial metaphor that would be as powerful as code but engage more parts of the brain, but I haven't found it yet.
BlueTemplar 6y ago
> desktop and phone UIs are little walled-off boxes that can’t interact with anything shared except saved files First, this is not true, as they are also able to communicate through the clipboard. And second, the point of the file is to have a durable form for the data. A VR world is still going to use files. EDIT : In fact, these two modalities of working with data directly stem from the hardware : "live" memory of the clipboard in the always powered Random Access Memory versus "dead" memory of the files in the 'hard' drive which keeps storing information when unpowered. Maybe there are other potential modalities than these two, but I personally am unable to imagine them. (I guess that there's an 'in-between' with logs stored as files, but that have their most ancient information regularly erased... which ends up happening with any information, regardless of the storage format, given enough time !) EDIT2 : And we both forgot about the concept of databases, which tend to be more complex in abstraction than filesystems, and can either exist in parallel or on top of a filesystem, and which many apps definitely use. But they obviously have to compose too with the underlying bit-juggling hardware.

cercatrova 6y ago

Sounds like PowerShell to me, each part isn't text but its own object that every other script can manipulate.

jcelerier 6y ago

> and a GUI framework wouldn’t exist in that paradigm, there are UI frameworks in node-based environments where you connect little boxes between to each other to create buttons, text, clickable areas, etc. One of my jobs has been about migrating off that into more traditional OOP-based languages because it just sucks ten thousands less times when your UI starts to grow.

jes5199 6y ago
yeah, the nest of connected lines metaphor doesn't seem to work unless you have a very simple model. I keep thinking there must be some other spacial metaphor that would be as powerful as code but engage more parts of the brain, but I haven't found it yet.

BlueTemplar 6y ago

> desktop and phone UIs are little walled-off boxes that can’t interact with anything shared except saved files First, this is not true, as they are also able to communicate through the clipboard. And second, the point of the file is to have a durable form for the data. A VR world is still going to use files. EDIT : In fact, these two modalities of working with data directly stem from the hardware : "live" memory of the clipboard in the always powered Random Access Memory versus "dead" memory of the files in the 'hard' drive which keeps storing information when unpowered. Maybe there are other potential modalities than these two, but I personally am unable to imagine them. (I guess that there's an 'in-between' with logs stored as files, but that have their most ancient information regularly erased... which ends up happening with any information, regardless of the storage format, given enough time !) EDIT2 : And we both forgot about the concept of databases, which tend to be more complex in abstraction than filesystems, and can either exist in parallel or on top of a filesystem, and which many apps definitely use. But they obviously have to compose too with the underlying bit-juggling hardware.