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How quickly we forget the heavily-armed antifa militia that occupied 3 city blocks in downtown Seattle, whose assault rifle-wielding “security team” assaulted j

by _iyig 6y ago

How quickly we forget the heavily-armed antifa militia that occupied 3 city blocks in downtown Seattle, whose assault rifle-wielding “security team” assaulted journalists, intimidated residents, and murdered an unarmed black teenager. Residents and businesses owners are currently suing the city for abandoning the neighborhood’s police station, providing porta-potties to the armed occupiers, and ceding control of this area to the violent mob for roughly a month. edit: Downvoted for relevant, if uncomfortable factual statements on HN? I thought we were better than this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Autonomous_Zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Autonomous_Zone https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2020/07/seattle-times-reports-new-details-in-shooting-death-of-16-year-old-rico-a-southern-california-kid-who-ran-away-to-chop/ https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2020/07/seattle-times-rep...

jolux 6y ago
I'm friends with several people that participated in CHAZ and your assessment of it is incorrect. It was doomed from the start but calling the people occupying it a violent mob is not correct. I personally believe it was a mistake because the people occupying it did not have or want a monopoly on the use of force in their area, meaning that it became a site of unrelated mob and gang violence because the police were not present. That's different from saying it was a violent mob who occupied it with the intent to harm others.
- _iyig 6y ago
  The armed occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge was also “mostly peaceful.” Much more peaceful than CHAZ/CHOP, in fact. I am friends with people who lived close by and visited the CHAZ/CHOP, and I watched live-streams from the CHAZ nearly 24/7 for the entire span of its existence. It was a lawless area patrolled by gun wielding far-left activists who routinely harassed journalists, ripped phones out of streamers’ hands to delete footage of the “security team’s” deadly mistakes, assaulted visitors of the wrong political stripe, and ultimately were responsible for the shooting deaths of several people. While the atmosphere was more “street festival” during the day, at least for a while, at night and as the occupation wore on it swiftly devolved into violent anarchy. Remember Raz Simone, the local rapper who showed up on the first night with an AK-47? Remember how he handed out rifles to seemingly random untrained people from the trunk of a car? Remember how his crew assaulted and pistol-whipped a graffiti tagger on the very first night of CHAZ/CHOP, on a Facebook Live stream, saying “we are the police now?” Many similar incidents. https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-autonomous-zone-leaders-warlord-no-cop-co-op https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-autonomous-zone-leaders-w...
  - OminousWeapons 6y ago
    Precisely this. It was unacceptable when Bundy et al performed their actions, and what occurred in CHAZ / CHOP was equally unacceptable. The fact that people do not see these events as roughly analogous is amazing to me.
    - dahfizz 6y ago
      It's amazing what people overlook when the offenders belong to the same tribe as you.
    - ip26 6y ago
      It's pretty hard to be sure you've got the right story with the latter, though. Makes it hard to pass judgement. I think Bundy et al was fairly cut and dried, generally everybody agreed on what happened, and disagreed on whether it was OK.
  - jolux 6y ago
    Where's your evidence that the security team were responsible for the shooting deaths of several people?
    - armenarmen 6y ago
      umm this? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53224445 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53224445
      - jolux 6y ago
        No one disputes there was violence. What is disputed is who perpetrated it. As far as I know, there is no evidence it was committed by CHOP participants.
        armenarmen 6y ago
        https://mobile.twitter.com/Bigoleboy420/status/1287132537329012736 https://mobile.twitter.com/Bigoleboy420/status/1287132537329...
pydry 6y ago
The guy who murdered the teenager had nothing to do with the CHAZ security team. He snuck in specifically to murder the other kid. I have a feeling you know this.
- _iyig 6y ago
  You are probably referring to a separate shooting death in CHOP, that of Lorenzo Anderson. I am referring to the murder of Antonio Mays Jr. by antifa security. This murder was filmed from multiple angles and recordings are widely available. Short clips from several of the vantage points (skip to roughly 1:40 - warning, disturbing): https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=_K0tXOBPMHA https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=_K0tXOBPMHA
  - pydry 6y ago
    Not really sure what I saw on that video. It's a mess. The last I heard Antonio Mays murder was an active investigation with no arrests made: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/everybody-down-what-happened-at-the-chop-shooting-that-killed-a-teenager-and-led-to-the-areas-shutdown/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/everybody-down-wha... If it's an open and shut case and the shooter is clearly identifiable why is that? Is the Seattle Police in on this conspiracy? I of course assumed you meant the other kid because the murderer was actually, yknow, detained and charged so their identity is obviously known. Once again, I'm sure you actually know all of this.
    - haberman 6y ago
      My understanding is that the shooter is not clearly identifiable, but people that night were bragging on Twitter about the "beautiful shot placement" by "security on the ground": https://twitter.com/EffInvictus/status/1277828963369353216/photo/1 https://twitter.com/EffInvictus/status/1277828963369353216/p... Video taken in the aftermath captures people discussing how they will collect and hide the evidence. Seattle Police found and questioned the woman who filmed that video, but she told them she didn't know anything: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/woman-released-following-arrest-in-connection-with-fatal-chop-shooting-investigation/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/woman-releas...
vkou 6y ago
How quickly people who don't live in Seattle shout nonsense about the CHAZ. Let's break down what actually happened. 1. After weeks of protests, police intimidation, beatings, and frequent gassing of the entire street (much to the delight of people living there, who were unable to breathe inside their own apartments), including a right wing chap driving a car through a crowd, and shooting someone trying to pull him out of his vehicle, the police leave the east precinct, based on an FBI claim that it will be burnt down. 2. The protest moves into the blocks around it, and starts protecting the precinct. 3. The precinct does not burn down. 4. The protest moves elsewhere, and a block party starts. 5. An idiot called Raz, and his boys start providing 'security'. Nobody asked them for it. People who ran the protest didn't ask for it. People living in the area didn't ask for it. Smells like a gang moving into a power vaccumm to me. 6. Homeless folks move into the park area of CHAZ. The area gets a bit rough at night, but is still a block party during the day. 7. Someone in the homeless encampment gets killed in the early hours of the morning, presumably over drugs, but who knows. 8. A teenager steals a car and takes it on a joyride through the pedestrian areas of the CHAZ. (Remember all the car attacks against protest areas over the past few weeks in both Seattle, and the rest of the country? Not a smart move.) 9. Some unknown person kills him and injures his friend. 10. The police move back in to an unburnt district. They then set up a multi-block checkpoint, that demanded all entrants into the former CHAZ to show their ID to be allowed entrance. (When we were under the thrall of Warlord Raz, only drivers had to show ID at his checkpoint.)
- jolux 6y ago
  That's right. My girlfriend in fact lived on Capital Hill at the time right outside, so I have a pretty good idea of the details.
- _iyig 6y ago
  There’s a lot to unpack in your post, but I’d just like to focus on “car attacks” here. You mention a “car attack” in Seattle. In actual fact, the incident I assume you mean was by all outward indicators a tragic accident, not a planned attack such as Charlottesville in 2017. Driver Dawit Kelete (who is black, and not politically affiliated) was high on pills when he plowed through BLM protestors occupying a section of the freeway in the middle of the night. Tragically, one protestor died and another was seriously injured. Most “car attacks” this summer have turned out to be simply reckless or confused drivers caught in the middle of unplanned, unannounced, often heavily-armed and aggressive street protests. Armed protestors have shot or shot at several such drivers, such as in Provo, UT and Aurora, CO. https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/6/30/21308526/gunman-shot-driver-then-hid-weapon-continued-protest-provo-police-say-blm https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/6/30/21308526/gunman-shot-... https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/03/man-charged-murder-shooting-protesters-elijah-mcclain-aurora/ https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/03/man-charged-murder-sho... By my reckoning, the actual count of “car attacks” this summer where a politically-motivated driver rammed a BLM/antifa protest can be counted on one hand. There has been a greater number of unprovoked attacks on drivers by protestors. This is the product of extreme paranoia among armed protestors, amplified by social media.
jascii 6y ago
Your links do not support your statement. While the wikipedia article mentions some armed presence, it clearly puts that as a response to outside right-wing violence. No mention of is made of an "rifle-wielding “security team” assaulted journalists, intimidated residents, and murdered an unarmed black teenager" in either article. There certainly have been some unfortunate shooting deaths in the area at the time, but not much is known about either the perpetrators or their motivation.

by _iyig 6y ago

jolux 6y ago

I'm friends with several people that participated in CHAZ and your assessment of it is incorrect. It was doomed from the start but calling the people occupying it a violent mob is not correct. I personally believe it was a mistake because the people occupying it did not have or want a monopoly on the use of force in their area, meaning that it became a site of unrelated mob and gang violence because the police were not present. That's different from saying it was a violent mob who occupied it with the intent to harm others.

_iyig 6y ago
The armed occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge was also “mostly peaceful.” Much more peaceful than CHAZ/CHOP, in fact. I am friends with people who lived close by and visited the CHAZ/CHOP, and I watched live-streams from the CHAZ nearly 24/7 for the entire span of its existence. It was a lawless area patrolled by gun wielding far-left activists who routinely harassed journalists, ripped phones out of streamers’ hands to delete footage of the “security team’s” deadly mistakes, assaulted visitors of the wrong political stripe, and ultimately were responsible for the shooting deaths of several people. While the atmosphere was more “street festival” during the day, at least for a while, at night and as the occupation wore on it swiftly devolved into violent anarchy. Remember Raz Simone, the local rapper who showed up on the first night with an AK-47? Remember how he handed out rifles to seemingly random untrained people from the trunk of a car? Remember how his crew assaulted and pistol-whipped a graffiti tagger on the very first night of CHAZ/CHOP, on a Facebook Live stream, saying “we are the police now?” Many similar incidents. https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-autonomous-zone-leaders-warlord-no-cop-co-op https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-autonomous-zone-leaders-w...
- OminousWeapons 6y ago
  Precisely this. It was unacceptable when Bundy et al performed their actions, and what occurred in CHAZ / CHOP was equally unacceptable. The fact that people do not see these events as roughly analogous is amazing to me.
  - dahfizz 6y ago
    It's amazing what people overlook when the offenders belong to the same tribe as you.
  - ip26 6y ago
    It's pretty hard to be sure you've got the right story with the latter, though. Makes it hard to pass judgement. I think Bundy et al was fairly cut and dried, generally everybody agreed on what happened, and disagreed on whether it was OK.
- jolux 6y ago
  Where's your evidence that the security team were responsible for the shooting deaths of several people?
  - armenarmen 6y ago
    umm this? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53224445 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53224445
    - jolux 6y ago
      No one disputes there was violence. What is disputed is who perpetrated it. As far as I know, there is no evidence it was committed by CHOP participants.
      - armenarmen 6y ago
        https://mobile.twitter.com/Bigoleboy420/status/1287132537329012736 https://mobile.twitter.com/Bigoleboy420/status/1287132537329...

pydry 6y ago

The guy who murdered the teenager had nothing to do with the CHAZ security team. He snuck in specifically to murder the other kid. I have a feeling you know this.

_iyig 6y ago
You are probably referring to a separate shooting death in CHOP, that of Lorenzo Anderson. I am referring to the murder of Antonio Mays Jr. by antifa security. This murder was filmed from multiple angles and recordings are widely available. Short clips from several of the vantage points (skip to roughly 1:40 - warning, disturbing): https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=_K0tXOBPMHA https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=_K0tXOBPMHA
- pydry 6y ago
  Not really sure what I saw on that video. It's a mess. The last I heard Antonio Mays murder was an active investigation with no arrests made: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/everybody-down-what-happened-at-the-chop-shooting-that-killed-a-teenager-and-led-to-the-areas-shutdown/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/everybody-down-wha... If it's an open and shut case and the shooter is clearly identifiable why is that? Is the Seattle Police in on this conspiracy? I of course assumed you meant the other kid because the murderer was actually, yknow, detained and charged so their identity is obviously known. Once again, I'm sure you actually know all of this.
  - haberman 6y ago
    My understanding is that the shooter is not clearly identifiable, but people that night were bragging on Twitter about the "beautiful shot placement" by "security on the ground": https://twitter.com/EffInvictus/status/1277828963369353216/photo/1 https://twitter.com/EffInvictus/status/1277828963369353216/p... Video taken in the aftermath captures people discussing how they will collect and hide the evidence. Seattle Police found and questioned the woman who filmed that video, but she told them she didn't know anything: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/woman-released-following-arrest-in-connection-with-fatal-chop-shooting-investigation/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/woman-releas...

vkou 6y ago

How quickly people who don't live in Seattle shout nonsense about the CHAZ. Let's break down what actually happened. 1. After weeks of protests, police intimidation, beatings, and frequent gassing of the entire street (much to the delight of people living there, who were unable to breathe inside their own apartments), including a right wing chap driving a car through a crowd, and shooting someone trying to pull him out of his vehicle, the police leave the east precinct, based on an FBI claim that it will be burnt down. 2. The protest moves into the blocks around it, and starts protecting the precinct. 3. The precinct does not burn down. 4. The protest moves elsewhere, and a block party starts. 5. An idiot called Raz, and his boys start providing 'security'. Nobody asked them for it. People who ran the protest didn't ask for it. People living in the area didn't ask for it. Smells like a gang moving into a power vaccumm to me. 6. Homeless folks move into the park area of CHAZ. The area gets a bit rough at night, but is still a block party during the day. 7. Someone in the homeless encampment gets killed in the early hours of the morning, presumably over drugs, but who knows. 8. A teenager steals a car and takes it on a joyride through the pedestrian areas of the CHAZ. (Remember all the car attacks against protest areas over the past few weeks in both Seattle, and the rest of the country? Not a smart move.) 9. Some unknown person kills him and injures his friend. 10. The police move back in to an unburnt district. They then set up a multi-block checkpoint, that demanded all entrants into the former CHAZ to show their ID to be allowed entrance. (When we were under the thrall of Warlord Raz, only drivers had to show ID at his checkpoint.)

jolux 6y ago
That's right. My girlfriend in fact lived on Capital Hill at the time right outside, so I have a pretty good idea of the details.
_iyig 6y ago
There’s a lot to unpack in your post, but I’d just like to focus on “car attacks” here. You mention a “car attack” in Seattle. In actual fact, the incident I assume you mean was by all outward indicators a tragic accident, not a planned attack such as Charlottesville in 2017. Driver Dawit Kelete (who is black, and not politically affiliated) was high on pills when he plowed through BLM protestors occupying a section of the freeway in the middle of the night. Tragically, one protestor died and another was seriously injured. Most “car attacks” this summer have turned out to be simply reckless or confused drivers caught in the middle of unplanned, unannounced, often heavily-armed and aggressive street protests. Armed protestors have shot or shot at several such drivers, such as in Provo, UT and Aurora, CO. https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/6/30/21308526/gunman-shot-driver-then-hid-weapon-continued-protest-provo-police-say-blm https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/6/30/21308526/gunman-shot-... https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/03/man-charged-murder-shooting-protesters-elijah-mcclain-aurora/ https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/03/man-charged-murder-sho... By my reckoning, the actual count of “car attacks” this summer where a politically-motivated driver rammed a BLM/antifa protest can be counted on one hand. There has been a greater number of unprovoked attacks on drivers by protestors. This is the product of extreme paranoia among armed protestors, amplified by social media.

jascii 6y ago

Your links do not support your statement. While the wikipedia article mentions some armed presence, it clearly puts that as a response to outside right-wing violence. No mention of is made of an "rifle-wielding “security team” assaulted journalists, intimidated residents, and murdered an unarmed black teenager" in either article. There certainly have been some unfortunate shooting deaths in the area at the time, but not much is known about either the perpetrators or their motivation.