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I fully agree with you. In a society where people would not have any existential fears, employed or not, Uber would not get away with what they're doing anyway.

by x3ro 6y ago

I fully agree with you. In a society where people would not have any existential fears, employed or not, Uber would not get away with what they're doing anyway. But I think the argument is orthogonal to what I meant. In context of the system that Uber drivers are living in right now, Prop22 is a step in the wrong direction: it gives affirmation to companies that actively deprives gig workers of the rights we talk about above. Of course it'd be better to solve this problem at a higher level, but I'm happy to argue against proponents of steps in the wrong direction (e.g. Prop22).

dannyw 6y ago
What do you make of the fact that most Uber drivers advocate for prop 22? https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/i9awkm/my_fellow_drivers_vote_no_on_prop_22/ https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/i9awkm/my_fell... Sure, reddit comments are anecdotes, but have you asked Uber drivers what they want? Do you think it's fair to deprive someone the right to work? (I drive for Uber part time and I am happy being an IC. I do not want to be an employee. I drive for Uber because of the flexibility).
- baq 6y ago
  I’m a salaried worker and I don’t want the Uber model to spread further. I like that I can’t be forced to work more than 8h a day, 40h a week. The gig economy sidesteps these laws in a way that could impact what I like in the future should my employer decide it’s fair and make business sense, and if enough people also decide that, they all lose collective bargaining power and instead of people they become resources.
- ZoomerCretin 6y ago
  > What do you make of the fact that most Uber drivers advocate for prop 22? That Uber was using their apps to shovel huge volumes of pro-Prop 22 propaganda at their drivers. https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/15/21517316/uber-spamming-user-political-push-notifications-prop-22-vote https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/15/21517316/uber-spamming-u...
lhorie 6y ago
My understanding was that both yes and no on prop 22 are net positives compared to the status quo ("yes" providing 120% minimum wage guarantees and some benefits, vs no obligations currently), and I recall reading Uber saying these will indeed incur extra costs that will get passed onto consumers. I feel that prop 22 is often incorrectly characterized as either an attempt at maintaining the status quo or a step backwards, but it's neither. It's easy to say "well I support everyone making more money", but that is an idealistic position that ignores the basic fact that there's a limited amount of money that needs to be distributed among a lot of people. If you were in charge, you might be of the opinion that only some stakeholders should get that money and others get nothing in order to allow at least some people to meet some arbitrary minimum threshold (the "no" in prop 22), or you could choose to distribute evenly across all existing stakeholder even if it doesn't meet the threshold for anyone (the "yes"). I don't think there's necessarily a right/wrong stance here; they're just different philosophies, and it makes sense to then vote on which people prefer. The people voted, and I imagine they did so with understanding of the propositions. I think it's dangerous to insinuate that people can easily be manipulated to vote one way or another. If that were indeed the case, then what exactly is the merit of a democracy over a dictatorship? I'd rather believe that people do indeed take their civic responsibility seriously and vote in an informed manner.

by x3ro 6y ago

dannyw 6y ago

What do you make of the fact that most Uber drivers advocate for prop 22? https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/i9awkm/my_fellow_drivers_vote_no_on_prop_22/ https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/i9awkm/my_fell... Sure, reddit comments are anecdotes, but have you asked Uber drivers what they want? Do you think it's fair to deprive someone the right to work? (I drive for Uber part time and I am happy being an IC. I do not want to be an employee. I drive for Uber because of the flexibility).

baq 6y ago
I’m a salaried worker and I don’t want the Uber model to spread further. I like that I can’t be forced to work more than 8h a day, 40h a week. The gig economy sidesteps these laws in a way that could impact what I like in the future should my employer decide it’s fair and make business sense, and if enough people also decide that, they all lose collective bargaining power and instead of people they become resources.
ZoomerCretin 6y ago
> What do you make of the fact that most Uber drivers advocate for prop 22? That Uber was using their apps to shovel huge volumes of pro-Prop 22 propaganda at their drivers. https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/15/21517316/uber-spamming-user-political-push-notifications-prop-22-vote https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/15/21517316/uber-spamming-u...

lhorie 6y ago

My understanding was that both yes and no on prop 22 are net positives compared to the status quo ("yes" providing 120% minimum wage guarantees and some benefits, vs no obligations currently), and I recall reading Uber saying these will indeed incur extra costs that will get passed onto consumers. I feel that prop 22 is often incorrectly characterized as either an attempt at maintaining the status quo or a step backwards, but it's neither. It's easy to say "well I support everyone making more money", but that is an idealistic position that ignores the basic fact that there's a limited amount of money that needs to be distributed among a lot of people. If you were in charge, you might be of the opinion that only some stakeholders should get that money and others get nothing in order to allow at least some people to meet some arbitrary minimum threshold (the "no" in prop 22), or you could choose to distribute evenly across all existing stakeholder even if it doesn't meet the threshold for anyone (the "yes"). I don't think there's necessarily a right/wrong stance here; they're just different philosophies, and it makes sense to then vote on which people prefer. The people voted, and I imagine they did so with understanding of the propositions. I think it's dangerous to insinuate that people can easily be manipulated to vote one way or another. If that were indeed the case, then what exactly is the merit of a democracy over a dictatorship? I'd rather believe that people do indeed take their civic responsibility seriously and vote in an informed manner.