4 ms·

Likely the last straw that breaks the camels back for me. * Have always had to do some mental gymnastics to rationalize the price increases for similar hardwar

Likely the last straw that breaks the camels back for me. * Have always had to do some mental gymnastics to rationalize the price increases for similar hardware * MacOS has slowly been more and more hostile towards my user flow * Butterfly keyboards and touchbar have made it more difficult for me to use * Lack of memory upgrades (with steep price increases) * And now we have a phoning home operation that raises privacy concerns and grinds my laptop to a halt :( Been eyeing a System76 laptop for a while... https://system76.com/laptops/galago https://system76.com/laptops/galago

tarasmatsyk 6y ago
Completely agree with all your points here, even though I bought a 2020 pro (big sur is badass). However, every time I read comments like that I feel like someone from the System76 is monitoring HN and posting evil marketing comments :D PS. Love System76, going to order it LOL
SkyPuncher 6y ago
Mac is offering one thing that I can't find elsewhere: an amazing TouchPad. I'm sure I could break away, but, right now, I'm hugely dependent on my touchpad for my workflows. * For some reason, windows cannot get scrolling working correctly on touchpads. * OSX gestures work incredibly well. I have them tied into many different actions.
- matheweis 6y ago
  There is a fellow from here working on getting it right in Linux. Apparently they’ve looked into it and it seemed like the obstacles aren’t insurmountable, but the developers want to be paid. https://bill.harding.blog/2020/04/26/linux-touchpad-like-a-macbook-pro-may-2020-update/ https://bill.harding.blog/2020/04/26/linux-touchpad-like-a-m...
  - no_wizard 6y ago
    As they should be, one thing I want to knock System76 for here is for not doing more around making the Linux Desktop experience more seamless. Still requires a ton of fiddling. It would be worth paying for, and honestly, I think it should be Bourne by the manufacturers of linux machines, not end users.
    - mushufasa 6y ago
      > one thing I want to knock System76 for here is for not doing more around making the Linux Desktop experience more seamless They are doing this? > It would be worth paying for, and honestly, I think it should be Bourne by the manufacturers of linux machines, not end users. if you want them to do more, buy their computer or support Pop_OS! with patreon-like donations. They ask for $1/month. https://pop.system76.com/ https://pop.system76.com/
- bosswipe 6y ago
  Personally I find that after a while I can adjust to the scrolling but what I can't get over is the lack of back/forward navigation gesture.
bosswipe 6y ago
For Linux I would go with a Dell XPS 13 or Thinkpad X1 Carbon.
- cartothemax 6y ago
  Buddy I know went with Dell + Ubuntu. I watched him struggle with driver issues that give me hesitation to the idea of _not_ buying an all in one packaged system.
  - tarasmatsyk 6y ago
    you need to get Dev Edition for XPS, otherwise you are going to struggle PS. Ex-Dell XPS user
    - qppo 6y ago
      Quick word though, if you have issues with dell software on Linux you're SOL even if you pay for software support. Dell does not offer any paid support for Linux machines they sell or software they distribute on them.
    - bosswipe 6y ago
      Mind explaining why you're an ex-dell xps user?
      - tarasmatsyk 6y ago
        Sure, Dell XPS is an outstanding laptop, I've not found yet better laptop if you don't like macs However, Dell is not going to be my next machine because: - dev edition is hard to get (at least for me) and regular version does not work well with Linux (finger scanner requires to install OS patches, WiFi is dropping ocasionally , I had some crappy WiFi adapter installed in 2017/18, scaling is a big issue etc) - mine XPS had a weirdly placed camera (bottom left corner) - again, mine model did not have 4k display (comparing to retina I had back then) - 13" is too small and 15" is too heavy, I would like something in the middle which might seem weird for you - there is no finger scanner for dev edition (Yubico is here to help) As you see those are very minor and subjective issues. Dell is a favourite machine of a friend of mine for years already, however I find Apple winning premium laptops battle in my eyes.
JeremyNT 6y ago
People always recommend System76 in these threads but they're just rebranding Clevo systems. You might consider cutting out their "value add" and just getting the unbranded NV41MB for ~$100 less (depending on how you configure it). https://www.avadirect.com/Clevo-NV41MB-D-14-Core-i5-NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1650-Graphics-Gaming-Laptop/Configure/13679459 https://www.avadirect.com/Clevo-NV41MB-D-14-Core-i5-NVIDIA-G...
- cartothemax 6y ago
  I was hoping to nerd snipe someone into giving me a better recommendation! Thank you :D
- vetinari 6y ago
  While getting it directly might be cheaper, it is necessary to realize what those $100 extra value add is getting you: someone did their work and did the integration necessary to run Linux seamlessly. You see HN threads full of complaining that there is always something to "fix" when running Linux. Your $100 goes towards not having to "fix" anything and working correctly OOTB.
  - qppo 6y ago
    pop_os is far from immune to this frankly.
    - vetinari 6y ago
      It is surely not perfect (I wouldn't know, I use different distro). But when people won't reward Linux integration, and reward Windows or Apple instead, there won't be any Linux integration and they will be getting Windows or Apple.
      - qppo 6y ago
        Offer a competitive price for a competitive product and support and people will pay for it. That's currently not possible with Linux for personal computing. I don't have any ill will towards Linux, I use it myself at work and home. But I'm not buying my parents a System76 machine for Christmas because I know the OS is unusable for them while the machines themselves are not well priced or spec'd for their needs. The closest thing I could buy is a Chromebook, which fits the needs of a kid in school certainly but is a bit weak and ill supported for what they use a computer for. So if I do get either of them a new computer, it's going to be a Windows or Mac. Linux options for them don't exist. There's no way to "reward linux integration" even if I wanted to, it's just not realistic.

tarasmatsyk 6y ago

Completely agree with all your points here, even though I bought a 2020 pro (big sur is badass). However, every time I read comments like that I feel like someone from the System76 is monitoring HN and posting evil marketing comments :D PS. Love System76, going to order it LOL

SkyPuncher 6y ago

Mac is offering one thing that I can't find elsewhere: an amazing TouchPad. I'm sure I could break away, but, right now, I'm hugely dependent on my touchpad for my workflows. * For some reason, windows cannot get scrolling working correctly on touchpads. * OSX gestures work incredibly well. I have them tied into many different actions.

matheweis 6y ago
There is a fellow from here working on getting it right in Linux. Apparently they’ve looked into it and it seemed like the obstacles aren’t insurmountable, but the developers want to be paid. https://bill.harding.blog/2020/04/26/linux-touchpad-like-a-macbook-pro-may-2020-update/ https://bill.harding.blog/2020/04/26/linux-touchpad-like-a-m...
- no_wizard 6y ago
  As they should be, one thing I want to knock System76 for here is for not doing more around making the Linux Desktop experience more seamless. Still requires a ton of fiddling. It would be worth paying for, and honestly, I think it should be Bourne by the manufacturers of linux machines, not end users.
  - mushufasa 6y ago
    > one thing I want to knock System76 for here is for not doing more around making the Linux Desktop experience more seamless They are doing this? > It would be worth paying for, and honestly, I think it should be Bourne by the manufacturers of linux machines, not end users. if you want them to do more, buy their computer or support Pop_OS! with patreon-like donations. They ask for $1/month. https://pop.system76.com/ https://pop.system76.com/
bosswipe 6y ago
Personally I find that after a while I can adjust to the scrolling but what I can't get over is the lack of back/forward navigation gesture.

bosswipe 6y ago

For Linux I would go with a Dell XPS 13 or Thinkpad X1 Carbon.

cartothemax 6y ago
Buddy I know went with Dell + Ubuntu. I watched him struggle with driver issues that give me hesitation to the idea of _not_ buying an all in one packaged system.
- tarasmatsyk 6y ago
  you need to get Dev Edition for XPS, otherwise you are going to struggle PS. Ex-Dell XPS user
  - qppo 6y ago
    Quick word though, if you have issues with dell software on Linux you're SOL even if you pay for software support. Dell does not offer any paid support for Linux machines they sell or software they distribute on them.
  - bosswipe 6y ago
    Mind explaining why you're an ex-dell xps user?
    - tarasmatsyk 6y ago
      Sure, Dell XPS is an outstanding laptop, I've not found yet better laptop if you don't like macs However, Dell is not going to be my next machine because: - dev edition is hard to get (at least for me) and regular version does not work well with Linux (finger scanner requires to install OS patches, WiFi is dropping ocasionally , I had some crappy WiFi adapter installed in 2017/18, scaling is a big issue etc) - mine XPS had a weirdly placed camera (bottom left corner) - again, mine model did not have 4k display (comparing to retina I had back then) - 13" is too small and 15" is too heavy, I would like something in the middle which might seem weird for you - there is no finger scanner for dev edition (Yubico is here to help) As you see those are very minor and subjective issues. Dell is a favourite machine of a friend of mine for years already, however I find Apple winning premium laptops battle in my eyes.

JeremyNT 6y ago

People always recommend System76 in these threads but they're just rebranding Clevo systems. You might consider cutting out their "value add" and just getting the unbranded NV41MB for ~$100 less (depending on how you configure it). https://www.avadirect.com/Clevo-NV41MB-D-14-Core-i5-NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1650-Graphics-Gaming-Laptop/Configure/13679459 https://www.avadirect.com/Clevo-NV41MB-D-14-Core-i5-NVIDIA-G...

cartothemax 6y ago
I was hoping to nerd snipe someone into giving me a better recommendation! Thank you :D
vetinari 6y ago
While getting it directly might be cheaper, it is necessary to realize what those $100 extra value add is getting you: someone did their work and did the integration necessary to run Linux seamlessly. You see HN threads full of complaining that there is always something to "fix" when running Linux. Your $100 goes towards not having to "fix" anything and working correctly OOTB.
- qppo 6y ago
  pop_os is far from immune to this frankly.
  - vetinari 6y ago
    It is surely not perfect (I wouldn't know, I use different distro). But when people won't reward Linux integration, and reward Windows or Apple instead, there won't be any Linux integration and they will be getting Windows or Apple.
    - qppo 6y ago
      Offer a competitive price for a competitive product and support and people will pay for it. That's currently not possible with Linux for personal computing. I don't have any ill will towards Linux, I use it myself at work and home. But I'm not buying my parents a System76 machine for Christmas because I know the OS is unusable for them while the machines themselves are not well priced or spec'd for their needs. The closest thing I could buy is a Chromebook, which fits the needs of a kid in school certainly but is a bit weak and ill supported for what they use a computer for. So if I do get either of them a new computer, it's going to be a Windows or Mac. Linux options for them don't exist. There's no way to "reward linux integration" even if I wanted to, it's just not realistic.