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FTA: > ...someone diametrically opposed to everything we stood for had been chosen as my successor. It's pretty obvious that Trump and Obama are opposed in ma

FTA: > ...someone diametrically opposed to everything we stood for had been chosen as my successor. It's pretty obvious that Trump and Obama are opposed in many, many things. But Trump and Obama do have common ground. At least in the broadest of senses if nothing else. Both profess love for America! Obama predates Trump as a serious political animal. And all this divisiveness predates Trump. I think Obama bears significant responsibility that Trump was even elected in the first place. I think Obama slipping in hyperbolic divisiveness here is a tiny example of exactly why Trump fans were looking for someone like him. It shows a real lack of perspective to not be able to separate political opponents from utter enemies.

pfisch 6y ago
Why did all the southern states become red directly following the passage of the civil rights act? I think you are ignoring the elephant in the room because you don't like what it says about America.
- humanrebar 6y ago
  Did you just call me an apologist for racism? Right after I was advocating for people to find more common ground? And people wonder how Trump happened.
  - pfisch 6y ago
    No. I don't presume your motivations. I just think Occam's razor applies here. Either directly following the passage of the civil rights act southern voters suddenly en masse rejected neo-capitalism, or something else was going on... I know it is unpopular to discuss but there is a high correlation between trump supporters and racial resentment measures. It is silly to ignore that.
    - humanrebar 6y ago
      Conflating criticism of Obama with racism is a huge reason Trump ever happened. It is harmful to ignore (and downvote) that. Yes, it takes some nuance to address racism as separate from opposition to a black president. I'd like to think HN is still capable of some nuance.
      - pfisch 6y ago
        I agree...somewhat. It is hard to ignore that the president directly following Obama basically ran on a platform consisting primarily of dog whistles and racebaiting. I think it is harmful to ignore the primary evidence because people don't like what it says about America. I think the democratic party needs to acknowledge that various degrees of racism right now seem to account for a very significant part of the electorate currently, and any messaging and strategy needs to acknowledge that for the most part you need to have some light racists as part of your coalition if you want to maintain a majority.
      - darksaints 6y ago
        Trump's political ambitions started with a racist conspiracy theory about Obama. The racists who latched on to that conspiracy theory had their favored candidate a full 8 years before he launched his bid for president. Of course opposition to Obama is much deeper than racism. I opposed Obama after regretfully voting for him in his first term, and then refused voting for him in his second term, for a multitude of executive policy decisions. But there is a huge quantity of criticism of Obama that can very easily be boiled down to racism, either because it is explicit, or so culturally entrenched as dog-whistle racism that it is undeniable. Hell, Hillary's dog-whistle racism when running against Obama in 2008 was a primary reason she lost the black vote in 2016! Racist opposition to Obama was, and still is, everywhere.
netsharc 6y ago
> Both profess love for America! Both are humans, have 2 eyes and 2 legs, etc, too, but how does this help? God damn, blaming Obama for Trump, how simplistic are your thoughts? Republicans said from day 1 of his presidency that their mission was to block him from succeeding (who gives a shit how much the country and the people suffered), because they probably knew he was very capable, and if he managed to fix/advance the country, the GOP knew their party was toast. I was going to write, "as well as their principles", but that sounds so honorable, their principles seem to be power at any cost and being spineless hypocrites, like the current GOP silence on Trump's baseless undermining of democracy. Add to that, Fox News who was poisoning half the country...
- humanrebar 6y ago
  I'm saying Obama is too simple when he calls his opponents his enemies. That is asking for more nuance, not oversimplifying. Yes, Obama deserves some blame here. No, he doesn't deserve all of it. But he did run in 2008 on pivoting away from this sort of negativity and cynicism. For the record, I'm not a Republican, don't consume Fox News, and never voted for Trump, so your rant about all that only reinforces my point about looking for enemies, I think.
  - loopz 6y ago
    Where does he call his opponents his enemies though?
    - defterGoose 6y ago
      He doesn't, but parent was too busy walking like a duck to notice.
    - humanrebar 6y ago
      I will concede that it takes a (small, IMO) logical leap from "diametrically opposed to everything we stand for" to enemy. I think that's a semantic and uninteresting point, though.
  - netsharc 6y ago
defterGoose 6y ago
> It shows a real lack of perspective to not be able to separate political opponents from utter enemies. Oh, I'm sorry. Which politician are we talking about again? Still waiting on that concession speech...
- humanrebar 6y ago
  Both can be true. Trump being wrong doesn't make it OK to be less divisive.

pfisch 6y ago

Why did all the southern states become red directly following the passage of the civil rights act? I think you are ignoring the elephant in the room because you don't like what it says about America.

humanrebar 6y ago
Did you just call me an apologist for racism? Right after I was advocating for people to find more common ground? And people wonder how Trump happened.
- pfisch 6y ago
  No. I don't presume your motivations. I just think Occam's razor applies here. Either directly following the passage of the civil rights act southern voters suddenly en masse rejected neo-capitalism, or something else was going on... I know it is unpopular to discuss but there is a high correlation between trump supporters and racial resentment measures. It is silly to ignore that.
  - humanrebar 6y ago
    Conflating criticism of Obama with racism is a huge reason Trump ever happened. It is harmful to ignore (and downvote) that. Yes, it takes some nuance to address racism as separate from opposition to a black president. I'd like to think HN is still capable of some nuance.
    - pfisch 6y ago
      I agree...somewhat. It is hard to ignore that the president directly following Obama basically ran on a platform consisting primarily of dog whistles and racebaiting. I think it is harmful to ignore the primary evidence because people don't like what it says about America. I think the democratic party needs to acknowledge that various degrees of racism right now seem to account for a very significant part of the electorate currently, and any messaging and strategy needs to acknowledge that for the most part you need to have some light racists as part of your coalition if you want to maintain a majority.
    - darksaints 6y ago
      Trump's political ambitions started with a racist conspiracy theory about Obama. The racists who latched on to that conspiracy theory had their favored candidate a full 8 years before he launched his bid for president. Of course opposition to Obama is much deeper than racism. I opposed Obama after regretfully voting for him in his first term, and then refused voting for him in his second term, for a multitude of executive policy decisions. But there is a huge quantity of criticism of Obama that can very easily be boiled down to racism, either because it is explicit, or so culturally entrenched as dog-whistle racism that it is undeniable. Hell, Hillary's dog-whistle racism when running against Obama in 2008 was a primary reason she lost the black vote in 2016! Racist opposition to Obama was, and still is, everywhere.

netsharc 6y ago

> Both profess love for America! Both are humans, have 2 eyes and 2 legs, etc, too, but how does this help? God damn, blaming Obama for Trump, how simplistic are your thoughts? Republicans said from day 1 of his presidency that their mission was to block him from succeeding (who gives a shit how much the country and the people suffered), because they probably knew he was very capable, and if he managed to fix/advance the country, the GOP knew their party was toast. I was going to write, "as well as their principles", but that sounds so honorable, their principles seem to be power at any cost and being spineless hypocrites, like the current GOP silence on Trump's baseless undermining of democracy. Add to that, Fox News who was poisoning half the country...

humanrebar 6y ago
I'm saying Obama is too simple when he calls his opponents his enemies. That is asking for more nuance, not oversimplifying. Yes, Obama deserves some blame here. No, he doesn't deserve all of it. But he did run in 2008 on pivoting away from this sort of negativity and cynicism. For the record, I'm not a Republican, don't consume Fox News, and never voted for Trump, so your rant about all that only reinforces my point about looking for enemies, I think.
- loopz 6y ago
  Where does he call his opponents his enemies though?
  - defterGoose 6y ago
    He doesn't, but parent was too busy walking like a duck to notice.
  - humanrebar 6y ago
    I will concede that it takes a (small, IMO) logical leap from "diametrically opposed to everything we stand for" to enemy. I think that's a semantic and uninteresting point, though.
- netsharc 6y ago

defterGoose 6y ago

> It shows a real lack of perspective to not be able to separate political opponents from utter enemies. Oh, I'm sorry. Which politician are we talking about again? Still waiting on that concession speech...

humanrebar 6y ago
Both can be true. Trump being wrong doesn't make it OK to be less divisive.