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I do not hate Obama - but his administration's abysmal record in multiple fronts drove me to Trump. Where were the Perp walks? He got chummy with Wall Street a

I do not hate Obama - but his administration's abysmal record in multiple fronts drove me to Trump. Where were the Perp walks? He got chummy with Wall Street and cashed out after his "retirement". He over saw Putin making territorial expansions and was really ineffective containing Russia and China. etc. Color me Furious when a dude with 7 million dollar mansion in DC and Martha's Vineyard complains about not giving up on America.

free_rms 6y ago
I'm not looking to stan Obama, but I have to quibble with "Russian territorial expansions". Losing Ukraine as a de facto puppet state and having to invade to keep critical port infrastructure in the Crimea isn't an expansion, it's a mitigated loss.
tartoran 6y ago
Genuine question. After a Trump term, are you still supporting him? Also, do you see his refusal to concede as legit?
b0sk 6y ago
LOL at mentioning all those things as a factor that "drove" you to Trump. No, you drove yourself to Trump. Trump is literally worse in every point you listed.
netsharc 6y ago
So, you think Obama was a swindler and you voted for Trump? I wouldn't trust your background checking abilities... But I get it, you made a choice and you tried to find a justification for that choice. I saw this speech and Q&A with Yanis Varoufakis the other day, and at one point he reiterated the "Fuck you, establishment!" motivations of Trump and Brexit-voters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGeevtdp1WQ&feature=youtu.be&t=3293 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGeevtdp1WQ&feature=youtu.be... . Voting for Hillary would have meant a continuation of Obama, out of anger or desperation of how shitty their lives had been, many in the electorate thought "Let's just vote for change, it might be shit, or it might be good, at least we know it'll be change.". And IMO Trump voters probably found justification after they made up their minds to vote for him, fooling themselves "He's not shit!" and clutching to empty hopes that Trump will fulfill his car salesman promises...
- netsharc 6y ago
  20 minutes, -2 points. What's wrong with what I wrote? Or did I forget yet again that HN is probably full of "libertarians" and should I wonder why I even come back and try to contribute here...
  - the_only_law 6y ago
    Its cool if you mostly stick to tech topics tbh.
  - sk5t 6y ago
    Nothing's wrong with your message, but its content made some people unhappy, and they used downvote as a 'disagree' button. Frankly I think your take is right on. A vote for Hillary well may have been a vote for leadership that would continue to ignore the deteriorating parts of America, and Trump made the effort to pander and campaign to the people in those areas. Put on the cloak of the Christian right too, even though he is an obvious stranger to both spirituality and Judeo-Christian morality.
gurleen_s 6y ago
So you didn’t like that Obama was chummy with Wall Street, and then voted for a billionaire?
- sremani 6y ago
  Trump being billionaire before joining Politics is not a bad thing in my book. I am worried about the centi-millionaires whose only profession is Politics like the Clintons, Pelosi, Mitch etc. Of course, Obamas are on that road too.
  - defterGoose 6y ago
    Buddy, if you think the results of the power structures of those two groups of people are different, you got another thing comin'. Do you consider it bad that Trump's wealth was bolstered by hundreds of millions in tax abatements from that same politician class? I'm not arguing that it wouldnt be great if our politicians would all go back to their farms in recess, but I am saying that in today's world and with our system, that it's impossible.
    - sremani 6y ago
      Buddy, I understand better than you think I do. Trump played the game no doubt, but I am more interested those who call themselves People's representatives not playing the games..
  - falcolas 6y ago
    Trump, by way of his family, was just shy of being a billionaire before joining the business world. Family money is a powerful thing for starting in business, and it can help pull up your bootstraps when you go bankrupt (6 times). EDIT: Two minor corrections prompted by downvoters. 6 bankruptcies instead of 7, and his family wealth in 1980 was, inflation adjusted, a bit shy of a billion (~$900 million). My bad.
  - darksaints 6y ago
    Lol, so if earning millions as a politician is so reprehensible in your eyes, how do you feel about the fact that Trump has spent taxpayer money on his own resorts? Last I checked, his golf tab has run into the hundreds of millions, over a million just in hotel rooms for secret service agents. Trump is easily the worst political grifter since Al Gore.
watertom 6y ago
> Color me Furious when a dude with 7 million dollar mansion in DC and Martha's Vineyard complains about not giving up on America. And you went to a trust fund narcissist who has never demonstrated any care for anyone but himself, I would have voted for almost anyone other than Donald Trump. If the vast majority of the country is OK being indentured to the 1%, there is very little anyone can do to fix things.
- sremani 6y ago
  Your Messiah had power for 8 years, his tonto will have for 4 years let us see your UTOPIA. We know what the snapshot is at 2016. I am sure, you will be on streets for unionizing Amazon workforce.. happy to join you when you start that protest.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - defterGoose 6y ago
    You insist that progress towards a better society is too slow so you vote for the guy with regressive policies? The only thing that can prevent actual (slow) progress over time?
darksaints 6y ago
I really hope you regret that decision. Obama might have been ineffective against Russia and China, but Trump has been worse in every possible way. With China, his "hardline" stance is all rhetorical; it hasn't hurt China at all, and has hurt America substantially. And with Russia, Trump has been a massive enabler. Not only did his campaign seek out foreign election interference from Russia, but when caught, went through substantial efforts to pin the blame on Ukraine. And he is constantly groveling on behalf of Putin, begging to invite him into the G7, even doing so after knowing that Russia was putting bounties on American soldiers' heads. And don't stop there, Trump is hands down the most corrupt executive officer in the history of the US...dozens of personally appointed staff ended up with criminal convictions, so much that he had to appoint a new Attorney General just to get the convictions to stop. There is no world in which any criticism of Obama, or any other politician, Democrat or Republican, should lead someone to support Trump. I too did not like Obama and refused to vote for him for his second term, but I would vote for a flaming turd in a paper bag on my doorstep over Trump or anyone that supports him.
- free_rms 6y ago
  It's worth considering what we get out of "confronting" these nations. Surely we should protect our interests, but are Ukraine or the South China Sea more vital to us than they are to Russia and China? What's actually in it for us besides hegemony for its own sake? Maybe fixing up some of our glaring domestic problems would be more effective in the long run.
- sremani 6y ago
  I do not regret my decision on Trump probably I would better judge it 10 years from now than currently. Probably I will regret just like I regretted my Obama support. Please do not regurgitate MSNBC talking points like Bountygate, Suckergate.. I am aware of these and do not have trust in anonymous sources.
  - darksaints 6y ago
    Those aren't talking points, and they certainly don't belong to MSNBC. The facts have been corroborated by multiple sources, published by hundreds of media outlets, many of which are international and apolitical towards the US. And they likely wouldn't have been anonymous sources if your chaos-mongering sociopath president didn't have a long history of attacking whistleblowers. Deflecting and disregarding substantial and material evidence because the person who exposed it wanted to not be attacked is pretty fucking pathetic.

free_rms 6y ago

I'm not looking to stan Obama, but I have to quibble with "Russian territorial expansions". Losing Ukraine as a de facto puppet state and having to invade to keep critical port infrastructure in the Crimea isn't an expansion, it's a mitigated loss.

tartoran 6y ago

Genuine question. After a Trump term, are you still supporting him? Also, do you see his refusal to concede as legit?

b0sk 6y ago

LOL at mentioning all those things as a factor that "drove" you to Trump. No, you drove yourself to Trump. Trump is literally worse in every point you listed.

netsharc 6y ago

So, you think Obama was a swindler and you voted for Trump? I wouldn't trust your background checking abilities... But I get it, you made a choice and you tried to find a justification for that choice. I saw this speech and Q&A with Yanis Varoufakis the other day, and at one point he reiterated the "Fuck you, establishment!" motivations of Trump and Brexit-voters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGeevtdp1WQ&feature=youtu.be&t=3293 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGeevtdp1WQ&feature=youtu.be... . Voting for Hillary would have meant a continuation of Obama, out of anger or desperation of how shitty their lives had been, many in the electorate thought "Let's just vote for change, it might be shit, or it might be good, at least we know it'll be change.". And IMO Trump voters probably found justification after they made up their minds to vote for him, fooling themselves "He's not shit!" and clutching to empty hopes that Trump will fulfill his car salesman promises...

netsharc 6y ago
20 minutes, -2 points. What's wrong with what I wrote? Or did I forget yet again that HN is probably full of "libertarians" and should I wonder why I even come back and try to contribute here...
- the_only_law 6y ago
  Its cool if you mostly stick to tech topics tbh.
- sk5t 6y ago
  Nothing's wrong with your message, but its content made some people unhappy, and they used downvote as a 'disagree' button. Frankly I think your take is right on. A vote for Hillary well may have been a vote for leadership that would continue to ignore the deteriorating parts of America, and Trump made the effort to pander and campaign to the people in those areas. Put on the cloak of the Christian right too, even though he is an obvious stranger to both spirituality and Judeo-Christian morality.

gurleen_s 6y ago

So you didn’t like that Obama was chummy with Wall Street, and then voted for a billionaire?

sremani 6y ago
Trump being billionaire before joining Politics is not a bad thing in my book. I am worried about the centi-millionaires whose only profession is Politics like the Clintons, Pelosi, Mitch etc. Of course, Obamas are on that road too.
- defterGoose 6y ago
  Buddy, if you think the results of the power structures of those two groups of people are different, you got another thing comin'. Do you consider it bad that Trump's wealth was bolstered by hundreds of millions in tax abatements from that same politician class? I'm not arguing that it wouldnt be great if our politicians would all go back to their farms in recess, but I am saying that in today's world and with our system, that it's impossible.
  - sremani 6y ago
    Buddy, I understand better than you think I do. Trump played the game no doubt, but I am more interested those who call themselves People's representatives not playing the games..
- falcolas 6y ago
  Trump, by way of his family, was just shy of being a billionaire before joining the business world. Family money is a powerful thing for starting in business, and it can help pull up your bootstraps when you go bankrupt (6 times). EDIT: Two minor corrections prompted by downvoters. 6 bankruptcies instead of 7, and his family wealth in 1980 was, inflation adjusted, a bit shy of a billion (~$900 million). My bad.
- darksaints 6y ago
  Lol, so if earning millions as a politician is so reprehensible in your eyes, how do you feel about the fact that Trump has spent taxpayer money on his own resorts? Last I checked, his golf tab has run into the hundreds of millions, over a million just in hotel rooms for secret service agents. Trump is easily the worst political grifter since Al Gore.

watertom 6y ago

> Color me Furious when a dude with 7 million dollar mansion in DC and Martha's Vineyard complains about not giving up on America. And you went to a trust fund narcissist who has never demonstrated any care for anyone but himself, I would have voted for almost anyone other than Donald Trump. If the vast majority of the country is OK being indentured to the 1%, there is very little anyone can do to fix things.

sremani 6y ago
Your Messiah had power for 8 years, his tonto will have for 4 years let us see your UTOPIA. We know what the snapshot is at 2016. I am sure, you will be on streets for unionizing Amazon workforce.. happy to join you when you start that protest.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- defterGoose 6y ago
  You insist that progress towards a better society is too slow so you vote for the guy with regressive policies? The only thing that can prevent actual (slow) progress over time?

darksaints 6y ago

I really hope you regret that decision. Obama might have been ineffective against Russia and China, but Trump has been worse in every possible way. With China, his "hardline" stance is all rhetorical; it hasn't hurt China at all, and has hurt America substantially. And with Russia, Trump has been a massive enabler. Not only did his campaign seek out foreign election interference from Russia, but when caught, went through substantial efforts to pin the blame on Ukraine. And he is constantly groveling on behalf of Putin, begging to invite him into the G7, even doing so after knowing that Russia was putting bounties on American soldiers' heads. And don't stop there, Trump is hands down the most corrupt executive officer in the history of the US...dozens of personally appointed staff ended up with criminal convictions, so much that he had to appoint a new Attorney General just to get the convictions to stop. There is no world in which any criticism of Obama, or any other politician, Democrat or Republican, should lead someone to support Trump. I too did not like Obama and refused to vote for him for his second term, but I would vote for a flaming turd in a paper bag on my doorstep over Trump or anyone that supports him.

free_rms 6y ago
It's worth considering what we get out of "confronting" these nations. Surely we should protect our interests, but are Ukraine or the South China Sea more vital to us than they are to Russia and China? What's actually in it for us besides hegemony for its own sake? Maybe fixing up some of our glaring domestic problems would be more effective in the long run.
sremani 6y ago
I do not regret my decision on Trump probably I would better judge it 10 years from now than currently. Probably I will regret just like I regretted my Obama support. Please do not regurgitate MSNBC talking points like Bountygate, Suckergate.. I am aware of these and do not have trust in anonymous sources.
- darksaints 6y ago
  Those aren't talking points, and they certainly don't belong to MSNBC. The facts have been corroborated by multiple sources, published by hundreds of media outlets, many of which are international and apolitical towards the US. And they likely wouldn't have been anonymous sources if your chaos-mongering sociopath president didn't have a long history of attacking whistleblowers. Deflecting and disregarding substantial and material evidence because the person who exposed it wanted to not be attacked is pretty fucking pathetic.