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I drove for Lyft for a while while taking a break from software. Then I got t-boned by a red-light runner. Fortunately no one was injured. I was on my way to

I drove for Lyft for a while while taking a break from software. Then I got t-boned by a red-light runner. Fortunately no one was injured. I was on my way to pick up a passenger, but it was only me in the vehicle. When I went to make my insurance claim to fix several thousand dollars worth of damage to my car, I discovered that despite having done a lot of research when trying to buy the right insurance with a rideshare rider and which was compatible with Lyft's own insurance, I wasn't covered. I had to eat the bill. Fortunately, I was a software engineer moonlighting and I had savings to take care of it, rather than a typical Lyft driver living with far less cushion. This sort of thing doesn't happen when you're an employee. The essence of the gig economy is doing away with hard-won labor protections and increasing profitability by offloading risk onto workers, creating the statistical certainty that a fraction of your workforce will experience circumstances far more tragic than mine.

kemiller2002 6y ago
I think this is the key statement to all of this. No one thinks about the risk. Running a business, which in a sense you are doing by being a contractor, is all about managing risk. When I ran a food business, that was 90% of my tasks, and I had to make sure that things continued to run no matter what happened. When you start realizing how exposed you are to bad things happening, it starts to wear on you. What happens if an employee gets hurt, or the food is prepped wrong (and someone dies)? How much money is it going to cost and will it bankrupt you? Companies like Uber and Lyft don't explain that to people. They don't explain the risk they are taking on by earning a few extra dollars. Will most people be ok, sure? Bad things happen even to people who take all the precautions, and it is an expensive and extremely painful lesson to learn.
- Jommi 6y ago
  This is a terrible argument. If every single small thing that could happen to you was explained to you before you made any decision, I can guarantee you would never make any new decisions.
  - kemiller2002 6y ago
    No, a small thing is blowing a tire, or fixing an engine. Being sued for pain and suffering because an accident occurred that wasn't your fault, that's not small. Things like that literally ruin your life. You can make the argument, "Well, they should know better, and if not it doesn't matter." I find that weak. The legal system is amazingly complex around business and fault during accidents. It's so complex, that there are attorneys that spend their entire career focusing on things like this. When dealing with insurance there is no, "Well it's ok, I'm insured." It's, "I'm insured if I can prove I didn't break any of the insurance contract rules," and the people on the other side, they're all better at this than you are. Most people who drive for Uber, etc. have no idea this is how it really is. The driving companies have pushed all this off to individuals, because they know the consequences of them getting involved, and this is why there needs to be laws surrounding things like this.
    - Jommi 6y ago
      This really seems to be a common trend on these Uber discussions. Americans bringing up cracks in the terribly terribly faulty infrastructure/systems (such as the legal system or the healthcare system) and try to find a way to blame it on Uber/gigwork. It's quite incredible really.
      - kemiller2002 6y ago
        No it's not that incredible. Workers have rights. That's been true for over 100 years. The fact that Uber is trying to skirt it, and they've been getting away with it is incredible.
        randompwd 6y ago
        The only failing of Uber(maybe the legal system) is that there's either no legal requirement to check the driver has the correct insurance before allowing them on the platform and that doesn't exist because there's no law that requires it of Uber(w.r.t OPs comment) That's a a failing of your local/state/federal legislators not the company.
JamesBarney 6y ago
If the law had been more narrowly tailored to making ride shares responsible for work accidents I think you'd see a lot more support for the law.
diebeforei485 6y ago
I thought Prop 22 would require TNC's to cover drivers while on the way to pick up a passenger.
apta 6y ago
> I discovered that despite having done a lot of research when trying to buy the right insurance with a rideshare rider and which was compatible with Lyft's own insurance, I wasn't covered. I had to eat the bill. So the problem was the insurance company, not the gig economy itself.
s1artibartfast 6y ago
However, This type of liability situation does happen when to sole proprietors running a business. Making drivers employees isn’t the only solution. There are any number of profession that are required to have appropriate insurances
kfarr 6y ago
Motor vehicle driving with passengers is an extremely high liability occupation compared to most other jobs.
Bryan22 6y ago
This is not how insurance works. The at-fault driver's insurance pays for damages. You're either leaving something out of this story or it is fabricated from whole cloth.

kemiller2002 6y ago

I think this is the key statement to all of this. No one thinks about the risk. Running a business, which in a sense you are doing by being a contractor, is all about managing risk. When I ran a food business, that was 90% of my tasks, and I had to make sure that things continued to run no matter what happened. When you start realizing how exposed you are to bad things happening, it starts to wear on you. What happens if an employee gets hurt, or the food is prepped wrong (and someone dies)? How much money is it going to cost and will it bankrupt you? Companies like Uber and Lyft don't explain that to people. They don't explain the risk they are taking on by earning a few extra dollars. Will most people be ok, sure? Bad things happen even to people who take all the precautions, and it is an expensive and extremely painful lesson to learn.

Jommi 6y ago
This is a terrible argument. If every single small thing that could happen to you was explained to you before you made any decision, I can guarantee you would never make any new decisions.
- kemiller2002 6y ago
  No, a small thing is blowing a tire, or fixing an engine. Being sued for pain and suffering because an accident occurred that wasn't your fault, that's not small. Things like that literally ruin your life. You can make the argument, "Well, they should know better, and if not it doesn't matter." I find that weak. The legal system is amazingly complex around business and fault during accidents. It's so complex, that there are attorneys that spend their entire career focusing on things like this. When dealing with insurance there is no, "Well it's ok, I'm insured." It's, "I'm insured if I can prove I didn't break any of the insurance contract rules," and the people on the other side, they're all better at this than you are. Most people who drive for Uber, etc. have no idea this is how it really is. The driving companies have pushed all this off to individuals, because they know the consequences of them getting involved, and this is why there needs to be laws surrounding things like this.
  - Jommi 6y ago
    This really seems to be a common trend on these Uber discussions. Americans bringing up cracks in the terribly terribly faulty infrastructure/systems (such as the legal system or the healthcare system) and try to find a way to blame it on Uber/gigwork. It's quite incredible really.
    - kemiller2002 6y ago
      No it's not that incredible. Workers have rights. That's been true for over 100 years. The fact that Uber is trying to skirt it, and they've been getting away with it is incredible.
      - randompwd 6y ago
        The only failing of Uber(maybe the legal system) is that there's either no legal requirement to check the driver has the correct insurance before allowing them on the platform and that doesn't exist because there's no law that requires it of Uber(w.r.t OPs comment) That's a a failing of your local/state/federal legislators not the company.

JamesBarney 6y ago

If the law had been more narrowly tailored to making ride shares responsible for work accidents I think you'd see a lot more support for the law.

diebeforei485 6y ago

I thought Prop 22 would require TNC's to cover drivers while on the way to pick up a passenger.

apta 6y ago

> I discovered that despite having done a lot of research when trying to buy the right insurance with a rideshare rider and which was compatible with Lyft's own insurance, I wasn't covered. I had to eat the bill. So the problem was the insurance company, not the gig economy itself.

s1artibartfast 6y ago

However, This type of liability situation does happen when to sole proprietors running a business. Making drivers employees isn’t the only solution. There are any number of profession that are required to have appropriate insurances

kfarr 6y ago

Motor vehicle driving with passengers is an extremely high liability occupation compared to most other jobs.

Bryan22 6y ago

This is not how insurance works. The at-fault driver's insurance pays for damages. You're either leaving something out of this story or it is fabricated from whole cloth.