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I’m Not yet Ready to Abandon the Possibility of America

35 points by hkhn 6y ago

_red 6y ago
"Lets Make Great Reset Great Again"
throw51319 6y ago
I don't get why the Trumpers hate Obama so much... he's always come across as well thought out and pragmatic.
- notacoward 6y ago
  > he's always come across as well thought out and pragmatic Some people hate him because he's thoughtful and pragmatic. They appeal to emotion or faith, not intellect. Their goal is cataclysm, not stability. It sounds crazy, it is crazy, but from boogaloo bros to evangelicals it's a lot of Trump's base. Oh, and he's black. That matters a lot to an overlapping segment of that base, outweighing literally any other personal qualities he might have.
  - jjj123 6y ago
    I think you’re missing that Obama’s decency and pragmatism are also emotional appeals to a certain kind of person. Personally it feels like bullshit to me (less bullshitty than Trump but still rings false). More importantly, Obama’s decency or Trump’s lack thereof are mostly irrelevant to what many people want out of a president. For example, I want Medicare for all, a green new deal, no more drone strikes, nationalized internet, etc. We’re more likely to get those things by being angry, not by being civil.
    - notacoward 6y ago
      decency and pragmatism are also emotional appeals ... We’re more likely to get those things by being angry I think it's clear whether Obama's supporters or detractors are relying on emotional appeals.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- sremani 6y ago
  I do not hate Obama - but his administration's abysmal record in multiple fronts drove me to Trump. Where were the Perp walks? He got chummy with Wall Street and cashed out after his "retirement". He over saw Putin making territorial expansions and was really ineffective containing Russia and China. etc. Color me Furious when a dude with 7 million dollar mansion in DC and Martha's Vineyard complains about not giving up on America.
  - free_rms 6y ago
    I'm not looking to stan Obama, but I have to quibble with "Russian territorial expansions". Losing Ukraine as a de facto puppet state and having to invade to keep critical port infrastructure in the Crimea isn't an expansion, it's a mitigated loss.
  - tartoran 6y ago
    Genuine question. After a Trump term, are you still supporting him? Also, do you see his refusal to concede as legit?
  - b0sk 6y ago
    LOL at mentioning all those things as a factor that "drove" you to Trump. No, you drove yourself to Trump. Trump is literally worse in every point you listed.
  - netsharc 6y ago
    So, you think Obama was a swindler and you voted for Trump? I wouldn't trust your background checking abilities... But I get it, you made a choice and you tried to find a justification for that choice. I saw this speech and Q&A with Yanis Varoufakis the other day, and at one point he reiterated the "Fuck you, establishment!" motivations of Trump and Brexit-voters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGeevtdp1WQ&feature=youtu.be&t=3293 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGeevtdp1WQ&feature=youtu.be... . Voting for Hillary would have meant a continuation of Obama, out of anger or desperation of how shitty their lives had been, many in the electorate thought "Let's just vote for change, it might be shit, or it might be good, at least we know it'll be change.". And IMO Trump voters probably found justification after they made up their minds to vote for him, fooling themselves "He's not shit!" and clutching to empty hopes that Trump will fulfill his car salesman promises...
- sk5t 6y ago
  Neither of those attributes is relevant to those who would support a demagogue. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/opinion/how-to-protect-america-from-the-next-donald-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/opinion/how-to-protect-am...
- erdos4d 6y ago
  Cause that's how tribalism works.
- omosubi 6y ago
  I'm not a trump fan by any means but obama was just another 8 years of bush. he didn't do much to end the wars, wall street got a raise especially those at the very top, no one was held accountable for the financial crisis, he gave more and more jobs away to china, obamacare gave huge profits to the insurance industry (which is why you didn't see republicans repeal it even when controlling the senate and house), he leapt at the chance to help tech companies who didn't need it, he limited civil liberties, and so on. It's so frustrating to see liberals bend over backwards to defend him.
  - psychometry 6y ago
    You're not wrong, but none of those things are why Trumpers hate him. It's racism, pure and simple.
    - hnlurker 6y ago
      Given the significant and well documented population of people that voted blue in '12 and red in '16, your claims seem beyond extraordinary and into the land of fantasy. A wise man once said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'm sure it has nothing to do with President Obama leveraging the IRS to explicitly go after conservative groups. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Obama extrajudicially murdering an American citizen. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Obama wielding the espionage act to prosecute whistleblowers more than all previous presidents combined. Bonus points for him wiretapping dozens of AP reporters. Yet when Trump tweets a meme gif of him knocking down a pro-wrestler with CNN overlaid on the person's face, he's treated as if he's destroying the 1st amendment and calling to violence; yet Obama is putting actual intense pressure on newspapers for writing bad stories about his administration. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Obama's anti-semitism displayed in so many ways including paying Iran to continue building a nuclear weapon, legitimizing baby-wielding terrorists, or cutting the legs out from under Israeli led coalitions in the region. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Obama setting back race relations, found by polling data, to pre-Obama levels by propping up dirtbags like Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin. I'm sure there is some racism in there, but your claim that it is the pure and simple story is literally fantastical. NOTE: There's also racism the other way, demonstrated by the number of black voters who voted for Obama but wouldn't vote for H. Clinton. Or is that too dirty a secret to mention? I haven't run the numbers, but my bias is that the number of I'll-only-vote-for-the-black-guy, as a percentage of population, is roughly equal to the I'll-only-vote-for-the-white-guy, as a percentage of population.
- nine_zeros 6y ago
  > I don't get why the Trumpers hate Obama so much... he's always come across as well thought out and pragmatic. I know a lot of people don't want to hear this but a large number of people just can't accept that a Black man should live in the white house. That black man can be the best person in the world and this set of population can still not accept him due to reptilian hatred. You can't generalize every supporter obviously but you can see it from which policies of Trump get the most support. It's not like Trump actually improved quality of life for anyone but he sure did tickle the reptilian hatred.
  - sanp 6y ago
    I don't know why this was down voted. This is pretty much it - white non-college educated males went crazy because someone beneath them was President..
- gwbas1c 6y ago
  There's a fraction of the media that repeats unsubstantiated claims enough that their viewers believe them to be true. Examples: Climate change is a hoax, or Obama is a muslim from an African country. I've lost count of the number of people who I met who blatantly make the above statements as if they are matter-of-fact... Because they watch the media that perpetuates these myths, every single day. So, the vitriol towards Obama comes from a fraction of the media that will stop at nothing to destroy him. (And, before someone goes and says that "the liberal media does it too," remember that the rest of American media does not openly contradict established facts to forward a political agenda.)
andrewclunn 6y ago
Don't listen to your elders with lived experience. Trust the passions of youth, who know naught but what we have drilled into their heads with two decades of schooling and television. Brand hatred of normal people as hope for the future. Obey, obey, obey.
nicodjimenez 6y ago
Dangerous drinking game: take a shot every time Obama says “I”. Even for a politician his self obsession is exceptional.
- lighthazard 6y ago
  What a straw to grasp at.
- rimliu 6y ago
  Taking personal responsibility is a rare thing now, eh?
- nofinator 6y ago
  It's from his memoir
- nicodjimenez 6y ago
  Wow why all the downvotes? I actually read the article and I’m just not used to reading articles with so many “I”’s.
  - happytoexplain 6y ago
    The specific attack comes off as petty and baseless.
  - ludsan 6y ago
    10% of your post uses the word "I".
  - mcphage 6y ago
    There's a lot of commentary on the internet, and nobody can respond to it all. Occasionally you come across something so incorrect and clueless that it's not worth responding to; you just downvote it and move on.
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  How on earth does saying the word "I" correlate to self obsession? It's an incredibly generic, flexible, common, context-sensitive word.
rasengan 6y ago
The country is divided because the narrative has made it so. There was never division until politicians and their PR engines decided to divide us... to conquer us. Government has become too large and our news media has gone under the control of said gov. For crying out loud, even China has a large presence/narrative control of Reddit and from a userbase perspective, Ghislaine Maxwell [1] has been controlling the narrative on Reddit for years [2]. Obama, it’s a joke if you think we can all simply be aligned. It doesn’t work like that. We all have different lives and issues we are facing. We all have different needs. If you want government to be more functional, scale has to be decreased. The USA is simply too big and diverse to meet the needs of all with one stone. Finally, painting one man, Trump, the way you are is simply wrong. One man can’t destroy a nation - and if one can - then this nation was never meant to survive. Luckily, he can’t and this nation will prosper long past your book publishing. Enjoy your pizza and dogs. The citizens of the USA will win no matter what you do to try to stop/hamper it. [1] Epstein’s friend. [2] /u/maxwellhill
- jmnicolas 6y ago
  > For crying out loud, even China has a large presence/narrative control of Reddit and from a userbase perspective, Ghislaine Maxwell [1] has been controlling the narrative on Reddit for years [2]. Can you explain this to me please (genuine question)?
  - sremani 6y ago
    Ghislaine is a prolific redditor and has a million karma points or something. I think the OP was referring to that.
  - rasengan 6y ago
    [1] Critical posts of China like Tiananmen Square are censored on Reddit. There are many others. [2] The most influential account and moderator on Reddit, maxwellhill, has been inactive since the moment Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein’s friend, was detained. Interestingly, the username coincides with Ghislaines life. Coincidentally, Ghislaine Maxwell was raised in a news family who controlled most of the media you and I have read for decades. Someone who controls the narrative in mainstream would understand the importance of Reddit.
mattferderer 6y ago
Off topic - kudos to The Atlantic for having a well recorded audio version of their articles! Great accessibility that benefits not just people who can't read, but also people who could read the article but would rather do something else like walk the dogs while hearing the article.
- schuke 6y ago
  If you enjoy traditional magazine in audio format, I would highly recommend The Economist’s audio edition. Every article in read out even including readers’ letters. Such a shame though the app is a bit buggy in audio playback and control.
- tarboreus 6y ago
  One of the (few) perks of going blind has been reading articles with Voiceover on my phone. I can now read while doing most tasks or walking around. If my vision got restored, I'd still read 80% of the time this way, I think. Seems like a hard thing to learn if you're not pushed into it, though.
jacknews 6y ago
I can barely wait for Trump's insightful memoirs.
- netsharc 6y ago
  Reading the article made me realize Obama must've kept a journal, if he can go through his time in office. I imagine Trump can only open Twitter and scroll back 8 years...
  - krapp 6y ago
    Trump's memoir is going to be the first written in all caps.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    Pretty much every senior politician has people keeping track of their schedule, what was discussed in meetings what the outcome was, what the key points were and whatnot. Only the personal "I couldn't ask my advisors so I discussed X with my uncle" stuff has to be recalled or journaled personally.
humanrebar 6y ago
FTA: > ...someone diametrically opposed to everything we stood for had been chosen as my successor. It's pretty obvious that Trump and Obama are opposed in many, many things. But Trump and Obama do have common ground. At least in the broadest of senses if nothing else. Both profess love for America! Obama predates Trump as a serious political animal. And all this divisiveness predates Trump. I think Obama bears significant responsibility that Trump was even elected in the first place. I think Obama slipping in hyperbolic divisiveness here is a tiny example of exactly why Trump fans were looking for someone like him. It shows a real lack of perspective to not be able to separate political opponents from utter enemies.
- pfisch 6y ago
  Why did all the southern states become red directly following the passage of the civil rights act? I think you are ignoring the elephant in the room because you don't like what it says about America.
  - humanrebar 6y ago
    Did you just call me an apologist for racism? Right after I was advocating for people to find more common ground? And people wonder how Trump happened.
    - pfisch 6y ago
      No. I don't presume your motivations. I just think Occam's razor applies here. Either directly following the passage of the civil rights act southern voters suddenly en masse rejected neo-capitalism, or something else was going on... I know it is unpopular to discuss but there is a high correlation between trump supporters and racial resentment measures. It is silly to ignore that.
      - humanrebar 6y ago
        Conflating criticism of Obama with racism is a huge reason Trump ever happened. It is harmful to ignore (and downvote) that. Yes, it takes some nuance to address racism as separate from opposition to a black president. I'd like to think HN is still capable of some nuance.
leftyted 6y ago
It used to be common knowledge that those "ready to abandon the possibility of America" were kids in college with little influence and that they'd grow out of youthful extremism. But by writing this, Barack Obama seems to saying that this isn't the case. > I recognize that there are those who believe that it’s time to discard the myth—that an examination of America’s past and an even cursory glance at today’s headlines show that this nation’s ideals have always been secondary to conquest and subjugation, a racial caste system and rapacious capitalism, and that to pretend otherwise is to be complicit in a game that was rigged from the start. And I confess that there have been times during the course of writing my book, as I’ve reflected on my presidency and all that’s happened since, when I’ve had to ask myself whether I was too tempered in speaking the truth as I saw it, too cautious in either word or deed, convinced as I was that by appealing to what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature I stood a greater chance of leading us in the direction of the America we’ve been promised. > I don’t know. What I can say for certain is that I’m not yet ready to abandon the possibility of America—not just for the sake of future generations of Americans but for all of humankind. I see this as a philosophical debate boiling over into the public. Radical philosophers have been saying for a long time now that everything is a question of power and domination, that anyone pretending otherwise is complicit, and that -- in the final analysis -- the mere classification of things is a violent act. On the other side, you have people who are essentially liberal pushing back, insisting on the usefulness of ideals, pointing out that incremental progress is possible, and arguing for the necessity of a common language to talk about the world we have in common.
- nicodjimenez 6y ago
  Well said. You can’t blame people for their limited world view though if they just haven’t spent any time in the private sector (writing a book about yourself doesn’t really count). Most progress and most wealth in our civilization has been created in the private sector. When people have no exposure to the realities behind their cheap paper towels, cheap books, cheap TVs, smart phones, etc, they often become radical and have a warped perspective.
  - defterGoose 6y ago
sleepysysadmin 6y ago
>Perhaps most troubling of all, our democracy seems to be teetering on the brink of crisis—a crisis rooted in a fundamental contest between two opposing visions of what America is and what it should be; a crisis that has left the body politic divided, angry, and mistrustful, Put your finger on the Median republican line starting in 1994: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charts-americas-political-divide-1994-2017/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charts-americas-political-d... In 2004 the median republican moved left of 1994. However, in 2017 only 1 line has really changed position. Now place your finger on 1994 Democrat. Their line has only moved left. Political divide is occurring almost entirely on the Democrat spectrum. The divide started between 2004 and 2011 according to the graphs. The explanation is quite simple. Obama's presidency in 2009. That makes this article quite interesting as it was written by the source of the divide. >This contest is not new, of course. In many ways, it has defined the American experience. It’s embedded in founding documents that could simultaneously proclaim all men equal and yet count a slave as three-fifths of a man. The "first black president" was going to have identity politics problem. Yet here he is a sentence after asserting race. The left-wing then is very quick to call Trump a white supremacist and racist. Put Trump aside, he's done. >I don’t know. What I can say for certain is that I’m not yet ready to abandon the possibility of America—not just for the sake of future generations of Americans but for all of humankind. Now put that in the above concern. It's the democrats who are dividing the USA. It's the identity politics of Obama that caused the schism. To heal the divide you have to identify the above problem and find the fix. However, one thing is for sure. During a political divide like this, the 2 sides refuse to talk to each other and often make decisions that will only exacerbate the problem.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Put your finger on the Median republican line starting in 1994: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charts-americas-political-d https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charts-americas-political-d... Thee problem with that is that several of the questions that make it up are assessments of current conditions, not pure ideology. If (as is, in fact, the case) the underlying facts changed away from Democrats preferences over the studied time on those issues, Democrats with constant preferences would appear to move left (and, conversely, an apparently stationary position on those issues# would represent a rightward shift in preferences.) Conversely, see: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/10/31/the-republican-party-has-lurched-towards-populism-and-illiberalism https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/10/31/the-repu...

35 points by hkhn 6y ago

_red 6y ago

"Lets Make Great Reset Great Again"

throw51319 6y ago

I don't get why the Trumpers hate Obama so much... he's always come across as well thought out and pragmatic.

notacoward 6y ago
> he's always come across as well thought out and pragmatic Some people hate him because he's thoughtful and pragmatic. They appeal to emotion or faith, not intellect. Their goal is cataclysm, not stability. It sounds crazy, it is crazy, but from boogaloo bros to evangelicals it's a lot of Trump's base. Oh, and he's black. That matters a lot to an overlapping segment of that base, outweighing literally any other personal qualities he might have.
- jjj123 6y ago
  I think you’re missing that Obama’s decency and pragmatism are also emotional appeals to a certain kind of person. Personally it feels like bullshit to me (less bullshitty than Trump but still rings false). More importantly, Obama’s decency or Trump’s lack thereof are mostly irrelevant to what many people want out of a president. For example, I want Medicare for all, a green new deal, no more drone strikes, nationalized internet, etc. We’re more likely to get those things by being angry, not by being civil.
  - notacoward 6y ago
    decency and pragmatism are also emotional appeals ... We’re more likely to get those things by being angry I think it's clear whether Obama's supporters or detractors are relying on emotional appeals.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
sremani 6y ago
I do not hate Obama - but his administration's abysmal record in multiple fronts drove me to Trump. Where were the Perp walks? He got chummy with Wall Street and cashed out after his "retirement". He over saw Putin making territorial expansions and was really ineffective containing Russia and China. etc. Color me Furious when a dude with 7 million dollar mansion in DC and Martha's Vineyard complains about not giving up on America.
- free_rms 6y ago
  I'm not looking to stan Obama, but I have to quibble with "Russian territorial expansions". Losing Ukraine as a de facto puppet state and having to invade to keep critical port infrastructure in the Crimea isn't an expansion, it's a mitigated loss.
- tartoran 6y ago
  Genuine question. After a Trump term, are you still supporting him? Also, do you see his refusal to concede as legit?
- b0sk 6y ago
  LOL at mentioning all those things as a factor that "drove" you to Trump. No, you drove yourself to Trump. Trump is literally worse in every point you listed.
- netsharc 6y ago
  So, you think Obama was a swindler and you voted for Trump? I wouldn't trust your background checking abilities... But I get it, you made a choice and you tried to find a justification for that choice. I saw this speech and Q&A with Yanis Varoufakis the other day, and at one point he reiterated the "Fuck you, establishment!" motivations of Trump and Brexit-voters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGeevtdp1WQ&feature=youtu.be&t=3293 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGeevtdp1WQ&feature=youtu.be... . Voting for Hillary would have meant a continuation of Obama, out of anger or desperation of how shitty their lives had been, many in the electorate thought "Let's just vote for change, it might be shit, or it might be good, at least we know it'll be change.". And IMO Trump voters probably found justification after they made up their minds to vote for him, fooling themselves "He's not shit!" and clutching to empty hopes that Trump will fulfill his car salesman promises...
sk5t 6y ago
Neither of those attributes is relevant to those who would support a demagogue. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/opinion/how-to-protect-america-from-the-next-donald-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/opinion/how-to-protect-am...
erdos4d 6y ago
Cause that's how tribalism works.
omosubi 6y ago
I'm not a trump fan by any means but obama was just another 8 years of bush. he didn't do much to end the wars, wall street got a raise especially those at the very top, no one was held accountable for the financial crisis, he gave more and more jobs away to china, obamacare gave huge profits to the insurance industry (which is why you didn't see republicans repeal it even when controlling the senate and house), he leapt at the chance to help tech companies who didn't need it, he limited civil liberties, and so on. It's so frustrating to see liberals bend over backwards to defend him.
- psychometry 6y ago
  You're not wrong, but none of those things are why Trumpers hate him. It's racism, pure and simple.
  - hnlurker 6y ago
    Given the significant and well documented population of people that voted blue in '12 and red in '16, your claims seem beyond extraordinary and into the land of fantasy. A wise man once said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'm sure it has nothing to do with President Obama leveraging the IRS to explicitly go after conservative groups. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Obama extrajudicially murdering an American citizen. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Obama wielding the espionage act to prosecute whistleblowers more than all previous presidents combined. Bonus points for him wiretapping dozens of AP reporters. Yet when Trump tweets a meme gif of him knocking down a pro-wrestler with CNN overlaid on the person's face, he's treated as if he's destroying the 1st amendment and calling to violence; yet Obama is putting actual intense pressure on newspapers for writing bad stories about his administration. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Obama's anti-semitism displayed in so many ways including paying Iran to continue building a nuclear weapon, legitimizing baby-wielding terrorists, or cutting the legs out from under Israeli led coalitions in the region. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Obama setting back race relations, found by polling data, to pre-Obama levels by propping up dirtbags like Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin. I'm sure there is some racism in there, but your claim that it is the pure and simple story is literally fantastical. NOTE: There's also racism the other way, demonstrated by the number of black voters who voted for Obama but wouldn't vote for H. Clinton. Or is that too dirty a secret to mention? I haven't run the numbers, but my bias is that the number of I'll-only-vote-for-the-black-guy, as a percentage of population, is roughly equal to the I'll-only-vote-for-the-white-guy, as a percentage of population.
nine_zeros 6y ago
> I don't get why the Trumpers hate Obama so much... he's always come across as well thought out and pragmatic. I know a lot of people don't want to hear this but a large number of people just can't accept that a Black man should live in the white house. That black man can be the best person in the world and this set of population can still not accept him due to reptilian hatred. You can't generalize every supporter obviously but you can see it from which policies of Trump get the most support. It's not like Trump actually improved quality of life for anyone but he sure did tickle the reptilian hatred.
- sanp 6y ago
  I don't know why this was down voted. This is pretty much it - white non-college educated males went crazy because someone beneath them was President..
gwbas1c 6y ago
There's a fraction of the media that repeats unsubstantiated claims enough that their viewers believe them to be true. Examples: Climate change is a hoax, or Obama is a muslim from an African country. I've lost count of the number of people who I met who blatantly make the above statements as if they are matter-of-fact... Because they watch the media that perpetuates these myths, every single day. So, the vitriol towards Obama comes from a fraction of the media that will stop at nothing to destroy him. (And, before someone goes and says that "the liberal media does it too," remember that the rest of American media does not openly contradict established facts to forward a political agenda.)

andrewclunn 6y ago

Don't listen to your elders with lived experience. Trust the passions of youth, who know naught but what we have drilled into their heads with two decades of schooling and television. Brand hatred of normal people as hope for the future. Obey, obey, obey.

nicodjimenez 6y ago

Dangerous drinking game: take a shot every time Obama says “I”. Even for a politician his self obsession is exceptional.

lighthazard 6y ago
What a straw to grasp at.
rimliu 6y ago
Taking personal responsibility is a rare thing now, eh?
nofinator 6y ago
It's from his memoir
nicodjimenez 6y ago
Wow why all the downvotes? I actually read the article and I’m just not used to reading articles with so many “I”’s.
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  The specific attack comes off as petty and baseless.
- ludsan 6y ago
  10% of your post uses the word "I".
- mcphage 6y ago
  There's a lot of commentary on the internet, and nobody can respond to it all. Occasionally you come across something so incorrect and clueless that it's not worth responding to; you just downvote it and move on.
happytoexplain 6y ago
How on earth does saying the word "I" correlate to self obsession? It's an incredibly generic, flexible, common, context-sensitive word.

rasengan 6y ago

The country is divided because the narrative has made it so. There was never division until politicians and their PR engines decided to divide us... to conquer us. Government has become too large and our news media has gone under the control of said gov. For crying out loud, even China has a large presence/narrative control of Reddit and from a userbase perspective, Ghislaine Maxwell [1] has been controlling the narrative on Reddit for years [2]. Obama, it’s a joke if you think we can all simply be aligned. It doesn’t work like that. We all have different lives and issues we are facing. We all have different needs. If you want government to be more functional, scale has to be decreased. The USA is simply too big and diverse to meet the needs of all with one stone. Finally, painting one man, Trump, the way you are is simply wrong. One man can’t destroy a nation - and if one can - then this nation was never meant to survive. Luckily, he can’t and this nation will prosper long past your book publishing. Enjoy your pizza and dogs. The citizens of the USA will win no matter what you do to try to stop/hamper it. [1] Epstein’s friend. [2] /u/maxwellhill

jmnicolas 6y ago
> For crying out loud, even China has a large presence/narrative control of Reddit and from a userbase perspective, Ghislaine Maxwell [1] has been controlling the narrative on Reddit for years [2]. Can you explain this to me please (genuine question)?
- sremani 6y ago
  Ghislaine is a prolific redditor and has a million karma points or something. I think the OP was referring to that.
- rasengan 6y ago
  [1] Critical posts of China like Tiananmen Square are censored on Reddit. There are many others. [2] The most influential account and moderator on Reddit, maxwellhill, has been inactive since the moment Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein’s friend, was detained. Interestingly, the username coincides with Ghislaines life. Coincidentally, Ghislaine Maxwell was raised in a news family who controlled most of the media you and I have read for decades. Someone who controls the narrative in mainstream would understand the importance of Reddit.

mattferderer 6y ago

Off topic - kudos to The Atlantic for having a well recorded audio version of their articles! Great accessibility that benefits not just people who can't read, but also people who could read the article but would rather do something else like walk the dogs while hearing the article.

schuke 6y ago
If you enjoy traditional magazine in audio format, I would highly recommend The Economist’s audio edition. Every article in read out even including readers’ letters. Such a shame though the app is a bit buggy in audio playback and control.
tarboreus 6y ago
One of the (few) perks of going blind has been reading articles with Voiceover on my phone. I can now read while doing most tasks or walking around. If my vision got restored, I'd still read 80% of the time this way, I think. Seems like a hard thing to learn if you're not pushed into it, though.

jacknews 6y ago

I can barely wait for Trump's insightful memoirs.

netsharc 6y ago
Reading the article made me realize Obama must've kept a journal, if he can go through his time in office. I imagine Trump can only open Twitter and scroll back 8 years...
- krapp 6y ago
  Trump's memoir is going to be the first written in all caps.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Pretty much every senior politician has people keeping track of their schedule, what was discussed in meetings what the outcome was, what the key points were and whatnot. Only the personal "I couldn't ask my advisors so I discussed X with my uncle" stuff has to be recalled or journaled personally.

humanrebar 6y ago

FTA: > ...someone diametrically opposed to everything we stood for had been chosen as my successor. It's pretty obvious that Trump and Obama are opposed in many, many things. But Trump and Obama do have common ground. At least in the broadest of senses if nothing else. Both profess love for America! Obama predates Trump as a serious political animal. And all this divisiveness predates Trump. I think Obama bears significant responsibility that Trump was even elected in the first place. I think Obama slipping in hyperbolic divisiveness here is a tiny example of exactly why Trump fans were looking for someone like him. It shows a real lack of perspective to not be able to separate political opponents from utter enemies.

pfisch 6y ago
Why did all the southern states become red directly following the passage of the civil rights act? I think you are ignoring the elephant in the room because you don't like what it says about America.
- humanrebar 6y ago
  Did you just call me an apologist for racism? Right after I was advocating for people to find more common ground? And people wonder how Trump happened.
  - pfisch 6y ago
    No. I don't presume your motivations. I just think Occam's razor applies here. Either directly following the passage of the civil rights act southern voters suddenly en masse rejected neo-capitalism, or something else was going on... I know it is unpopular to discuss but there is a high correlation between trump supporters and racial resentment measures. It is silly to ignore that.
    - humanrebar 6y ago
      Conflating criticism of Obama with racism is a huge reason Trump ever happened. It is harmful to ignore (and downvote) that. Yes, it takes some nuance to address racism as separate from opposition to a black president. I'd like to think HN is still capable of some nuance.

leftyted 6y ago

It used to be common knowledge that those "ready to abandon the possibility of America" were kids in college with little influence and that they'd grow out of youthful extremism. But by writing this, Barack Obama seems to saying that this isn't the case. > I recognize that there are those who believe that it’s time to discard the myth—that an examination of America’s past and an even cursory glance at today’s headlines show that this nation’s ideals have always been secondary to conquest and subjugation, a racial caste system and rapacious capitalism, and that to pretend otherwise is to be complicit in a game that was rigged from the start. And I confess that there have been times during the course of writing my book, as I’ve reflected on my presidency and all that’s happened since, when I’ve had to ask myself whether I was too tempered in speaking the truth as I saw it, too cautious in either word or deed, convinced as I was that by appealing to what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature I stood a greater chance of leading us in the direction of the America we’ve been promised. > I don’t know. What I can say for certain is that I’m not yet ready to abandon the possibility of America—not just for the sake of future generations of Americans but for all of humankind. I see this as a philosophical debate boiling over into the public. Radical philosophers have been saying for a long time now that everything is a question of power and domination, that anyone pretending otherwise is complicit, and that -- in the final analysis -- the mere classification of things is a violent act. On the other side, you have people who are essentially liberal pushing back, insisting on the usefulness of ideals, pointing out that incremental progress is possible, and arguing for the necessity of a common language to talk about the world we have in common.

nicodjimenez 6y ago
Well said. You can’t blame people for their limited world view though if they just haven’t spent any time in the private sector (writing a book about yourself doesn’t really count). Most progress and most wealth in our civilization has been created in the private sector. When people have no exposure to the realities behind their cheap paper towels, cheap books, cheap TVs, smart phones, etc, they often become radical and have a warped perspective.
- defterGoose 6y ago

sleepysysadmin 6y ago

>Perhaps most troubling of all, our democracy seems to be teetering on the brink of crisis—a crisis rooted in a fundamental contest between two opposing visions of what America is and what it should be; a crisis that has left the body politic divided, angry, and mistrustful, Put your finger on the Median republican line starting in 1994: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charts-americas-political-divide-1994-2017/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charts-americas-political-d... In 2004 the median republican moved left of 1994. However, in 2017 only 1 line has really changed position. Now place your finger on 1994 Democrat. Their line has only moved left. Political divide is occurring almost entirely on the Democrat spectrum. The divide started between 2004 and 2011 according to the graphs. The explanation is quite simple. Obama's presidency in 2009. That makes this article quite interesting as it was written by the source of the divide. >This contest is not new, of course. In many ways, it has defined the American experience. It’s embedded in founding documents that could simultaneously proclaim all men equal and yet count a slave as three-fifths of a man. The "first black president" was going to have identity politics problem. Yet here he is a sentence after asserting race. The left-wing then is very quick to call Trump a white supremacist and racist. Put Trump aside, he's done. >I don’t know. What I can say for certain is that I’m not yet ready to abandon the possibility of America—not just for the sake of future generations of Americans but for all of humankind. Now put that in the above concern. It's the democrats who are dividing the USA. It's the identity politics of Obama that caused the schism. To heal the divide you have to identify the above problem and find the fix. However, one thing is for sure. During a political divide like this, the 2 sides refuse to talk to each other and often make decisions that will only exacerbate the problem.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> Put your finger on the Median republican line starting in 1994: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charts-americas-political-d https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charts-americas-political-d... Thee problem with that is that several of the questions that make it up are assessments of current conditions, not pure ideology. If (as is, in fact, the case) the underlying facts changed away from Democrats preferences over the studied time on those issues, Democrats with constant preferences would appear to move left (and, conversely, an apparently stationary position on those issues# would represent a rightward shift in preferences.) Conversely, see: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/10/31/the-republican-party-has-lurched-towards-populism-and-illiberalism https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/10/31/the-repu...