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>Sweden is doing worse economically than any other Nordic country, which all had bigger lockdowns Yes worse than before pandemic thats because other doing coun

by matz1 6y ago

>Sweden is doing worse economically than any other Nordic country, which all had bigger lockdowns Yes worse than before pandemic thats because other doing countries lockdown but life pretty much still normal there. Business open as usual, kids go to school in person as usual, bar open as usual. I would happily choose to live there if I can choose. USA is not bad at all, number of case is high but most of it are asymptomatic or only have mild symptom. What bad is the government reaction in some state that put so many covid related restriction. how are u thinking of locking people is beyond me, it makes people suffer, its harmful. Death from car accident can be reduced by banning car altogether but we did didn't ban car because banning is more harmful.

tsimionescu 6y ago
> USA is not bad at all, number of case is high but most of it are asymptomatic or only have mild symptom. What bad is the government reaction in some state that put so many covid related restriction. how are u thinking of locking people is beyond me, it makes people suffer, its harmful. The USA has the highest number of deaths from Covid of any country on Earth, by far. One of the worse numbers per capita as well. To put it in perspective, in 2018 435,000 people died of Malaria around the world; the US alone has lost 225,000 people to Covid - more than half of that. Also, you have to understand that the restrictions are the only things that have kept the numbers so small. Everything we've seen from regions that didn't take measures to curb the spread shows that numbers could easily be 2-5 times the current numbers. How you can look at those numbers and think "yeah, but wearing a mask is, like, annoying" is beyond reason. And please remember that cars have a huge upside, and that they are heavily regulated exactly to reduce the number of deaths. You need to pass an exam just to get in the driver's seat of a car. You have to pass all sorts of expensive tests to even put a car you built on the road. You're not allowed to drink before driving. You have to wear an uncomfortable harness the whole time you're inside a car etc. - there are many restrictions that we accept to make driving safer. Similarly for Covid, there were all sorts of annoying restrictions to keep people at least somewhat safe. The equivalent of banning all cars would have been that everyone except doctors, emergency personnel and the military can't leave their house for 2-3 weeks, and the pandemic would have been over. But just like we can't ban cars altogether, it's not realistic to do that, so we had to accept lesser measures that offer lesser protection. But from there to "any kind of lockdown is, like, really bad" you have quite some way to go.
- matz1 6y ago
  >The USA has the highest number of deaths from Covid of any country on Earth, by far The number include people who die with covid not just due to covid. So its inflated. > How you can look at those numbers and think "yeah, but wearing a mask is, like, annoying" is beyond reason. Not just mask but also the business capacity restriction, business not allowed to open, kids not going to school in person, unemployment, bankruptcy, delayed treatment for other diseases, some suicides, some domestic violence, some horrible mental health impacts, some livelihoods destroyed, some people dying alone, some relationships ending, some relationships never starting, etc All those for the risk of covid ? Yeah very very not worth it. >there are many restrictions that we accept to make driving safer Right, but even then still many people die, and that number can be reduced by banning car altogether but the damage is not worth it. Similarly for covid, there are huge downside due to lockdown. The risk due to lockdown compared to the risk of covid ? very very not worth it. Both option is sucks but the point it to choose the less sucks among it. If for you, you think the risk is worth it and you want to isolate yourself then its fine I won't force you but the issue is if you trying to force other people to isolate too. If I can choose I would gladly choose to live in the country like Sweeden, where life pretty much normal and hardly any masks or any other country without any restriction right now.
  - tsimionescu 6y ago
    > The number include people who die with covid not just due to covid. So its inflated. There is no significant difference between people dying WITH a systemic disease and people dying OF a systemic disease. And there is no over-reporting in the USA compared to most other countries, so the comparison still makes sense. And even if HALF the reported numbers were wrong (the reality is probably closer to 0.01% or something), it would still be a viral disease much worse than any other active in the wealthy world today. > Similarly for covid, there are huge downside due to lockdown. The risk due to lockdown compared to the risk of covid ? very very not worth it. You are acting as if the mild restrictions in place today are as extreme as banning cars. I've already pointed out that the extreme response would be state-wide, military enforced, house arrest for everyone except emergency personnel - that would be the 0 deaths alternative. Instead, in all places that actually care about public health, we have mild restrictions to control the spread of the virus. This includes Sweden by the way, which has a lockdown more or less as much as everywhere else, except it is more self-imposed since their constitution doesn't allow for a legally-enforced one. > If for you, you think the risk is worth it and you want to isolate yourself then its fine I won't force you but the issue is if you trying to force other people to isolate too. It's not about what I think. We have people specialized in assessing these risks, and they have ALL said, everywhere in the world, that we must wear masks and isolate. The risks from isolation, which are also understood and absolutely exist, DO NOT outweigh the risks of the disease. And this is not me saying it, it is doctors and policy makers everywhere in the world. Do you think the UK WANTS to close its economy? Or France or Germany or Norway? Do you think they WANT to keep their schools closed? Or is it much more believable that they have looked at the risks, they have looked at hospital capacity, and have understood, unlike you, that Covid19 is much worse than the hardships caused by lockdowns? And while there are some valid concerns about the impact of lockdowns on all sorts of problems, there is absolutely no excuse for not wearing a mask. Not doing is simply irresponsible and unhygienic, and must be strongly punished by legal and social means.

by matz1 6y ago

tsimionescu 6y ago

> USA is not bad at all, number of case is high but most of it are asymptomatic or only have mild symptom. What bad is the government reaction in some state that put so many covid related restriction. how are u thinking of locking people is beyond me, it makes people suffer, its harmful. The USA has the highest number of deaths from Covid of any country on Earth, by far. One of the worse numbers per capita as well. To put it in perspective, in 2018 435,000 people died of Malaria around the world; the US alone has lost 225,000 people to Covid - more than half of that. Also, you have to understand that the restrictions are the only things that have kept the numbers so small. Everything we've seen from regions that didn't take measures to curb the spread shows that numbers could easily be 2-5 times the current numbers. How you can look at those numbers and think "yeah, but wearing a mask is, like, annoying" is beyond reason. And please remember that cars have a huge upside, and that they are heavily regulated exactly to reduce the number of deaths. You need to pass an exam just to get in the driver's seat of a car. You have to pass all sorts of expensive tests to even put a car you built on the road. You're not allowed to drink before driving. You have to wear an uncomfortable harness the whole time you're inside a car etc. - there are many restrictions that we accept to make driving safer. Similarly for Covid, there were all sorts of annoying restrictions to keep people at least somewhat safe. The equivalent of banning all cars would have been that everyone except doctors, emergency personnel and the military can't leave their house for 2-3 weeks, and the pandemic would have been over. But just like we can't ban cars altogether, it's not realistic to do that, so we had to accept lesser measures that offer lesser protection. But from there to "any kind of lockdown is, like, really bad" you have quite some way to go.

matz1 6y ago
>The USA has the highest number of deaths from Covid of any country on Earth, by far The number include people who die with covid not just due to covid. So its inflated. > How you can look at those numbers and think "yeah, but wearing a mask is, like, annoying" is beyond reason. Not just mask but also the business capacity restriction, business not allowed to open, kids not going to school in person, unemployment, bankruptcy, delayed treatment for other diseases, some suicides, some domestic violence, some horrible mental health impacts, some livelihoods destroyed, some people dying alone, some relationships ending, some relationships never starting, etc All those for the risk of covid ? Yeah very very not worth it. >there are many restrictions that we accept to make driving safer Right, but even then still many people die, and that number can be reduced by banning car altogether but the damage is not worth it. Similarly for covid, there are huge downside due to lockdown. The risk due to lockdown compared to the risk of covid ? very very not worth it. Both option is sucks but the point it to choose the less sucks among it. If for you, you think the risk is worth it and you want to isolate yourself then its fine I won't force you but the issue is if you trying to force other people to isolate too. If I can choose I would gladly choose to live in the country like Sweeden, where life pretty much normal and hardly any masks or any other country without any restriction right now.
- tsimionescu 6y ago
  > The number include people who die with covid not just due to covid. So its inflated. There is no significant difference between people dying WITH a systemic disease and people dying OF a systemic disease. And there is no over-reporting in the USA compared to most other countries, so the comparison still makes sense. And even if HALF the reported numbers were wrong (the reality is probably closer to 0.01% or something), it would still be a viral disease much worse than any other active in the wealthy world today. > Similarly for covid, there are huge downside due to lockdown. The risk due to lockdown compared to the risk of covid ? very very not worth it. You are acting as if the mild restrictions in place today are as extreme as banning cars. I've already pointed out that the extreme response would be state-wide, military enforced, house arrest for everyone except emergency personnel - that would be the 0 deaths alternative. Instead, in all places that actually care about public health, we have mild restrictions to control the spread of the virus. This includes Sweden by the way, which has a lockdown more or less as much as everywhere else, except it is more self-imposed since their constitution doesn't allow for a legally-enforced one. > If for you, you think the risk is worth it and you want to isolate yourself then its fine I won't force you but the issue is if you trying to force other people to isolate too. It's not about what I think. We have people specialized in assessing these risks, and they have ALL said, everywhere in the world, that we must wear masks and isolate. The risks from isolation, which are also understood and absolutely exist, DO NOT outweigh the risks of the disease. And this is not me saying it, it is doctors and policy makers everywhere in the world. Do you think the UK WANTS to close its economy? Or France or Germany or Norway? Do you think they WANT to keep their schools closed? Or is it much more believable that they have looked at the risks, they have looked at hospital capacity, and have understood, unlike you, that Covid19 is much worse than the hardships caused by lockdowns? And while there are some valid concerns about the impact of lockdowns on all sorts of problems, there is absolutely no excuse for not wearing a mask. Not doing is simply irresponsible and unhygienic, and must be strongly punished by legal and social means.