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Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

439 points by rustoo 6y ago

Hendrikto 6y ago
Neither this article nor the research paper support the claim from the headline. A correlation was found, no causation afaict.
achandlerwhite 6y ago
I don’t know. I feel like screen time is a misnomer. From my anecdata less social media more sleep is the key. If my screen time is reading a kindle or learning programming I doubt the impact is so bad. Of course anything taken to an extreme...
- baxtr 6y ago
  This and endless reloads of news sites
- steve_adams_86 6y ago
  This is what something like a kindle shines. That isn’t such a bad form of screen time. Other devices are dangerous for me because, well, here I am on HN rather than preparing for my day. If I picked up my kindle instead I wouldn’t be on HN.
  - bigredhdl 6y ago
    Does anyone have experience where newer kindles or other e-readers keep them awake less than other ones? I have a 1st generation kindle paperwhite, but I still feel like the front light on it keeps me from getting sleepy versus just reading a physical book.
deepstack 6y ago
More sleep time is critical for preventing depression period. It is not rocket science. Everyone can tell from their own person experience. Now it could be sometime when one is depressed one can't sleep. However, sleep pretty much helps every many things.
- deepstack 6y ago
  this is the reason why I think tech company ought to let employee sleep whenever they want as long as they want at work (not at meetings of course, although that is tempting sometimes), as long as they get their work done on time.
  - duopixel 6y ago
    When I work for myself, I nap at the slightest sensation of drowsiness. I’m not productive nor efficient while sleepy. Yet I’ve wasted so many hours in mindless stupor for my employers (especially after lunch) because napping on the clock is taboo.
  - behnamoh 6y ago
    I can't tell you how many times I wished there were "sleep rooms" in our university to wind down in afternoons and get refreshed for more study and work. They should at least offer them for PhD students who spend most their life in office.
- bserge 6y ago
  But not too much. I used to sleep 10-12 hours during depressive episodes when I had nothing important to do, it just makes things worse. Over 7-8 hours of sleep just makes me tired and sleepy the whole day (paradoxical, yeah). Forcing a limit helps a lot more.
  - brianmcc 6y ago
    The article seems to agree with you - it presents optimal sleep as important, 7 - 9 hours.
  - the_only_law 6y ago
    Yeah I either sleep 0-5 hours or 12+, rarely in between. Interestingly I usually feel better with the former (for a few hours before the microsleeps hit, at least). When i sleep late, I normally wake up with a bad headache, sore, really bad brain fog, etc.
dpeck 6y ago
Not all screen time is the same and it’s far beyond time for us to stop equivocating Facebook/Instagram and other social media nastiness with all the positive things that can be done on a screen. It confuses people, and as we stare down another quarantine and a long cold winter telling people to spend less time with what could be their only contact to the outside world can be actively harmful.
- yepthatsreality 6y ago
  Agreed computers are tools for productivity and entertainment. You should set yourself up for success and utilize your machine/time accordingly. These are the first steps to exiting the screen time nightmare one may find themselves in.
- nkozyra 6y ago
  I just read the abstracts of one of the studies[1] and it's really including TV and general computer time, not necessarily social media time. It also references a study that seems to focus more on computer time and "information" overload (at least from the abstract).[2] I think it's a mistake to assume that sedentary screen time is not impactful so long as you're avoiding social media. [1] https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-020-01813-5 https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1291... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31059635/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31059635/
  - godelski 6y ago
    I think there are big questions on what screen time actual is though. Isn't general computer time essentially social media? At least for most people? Most people also aren't watching documentaries on TV or doing things that exercise the brain. All admit I didn't read your sources but I'm assuming reading books isn't detrimental so it's probably not the sedentary nature of the activity (I could be completely off). I do think that since these days we use computers so much that it does warrant breaking down the activity. Does anyone have a study that does do this comparison?
- sneak 6y ago
sudo_rm 6y ago
Lately I have been doing my best to limit my "optional" screen time (optional meaning anything that is not for work and school). I fingered though Cal Newport's "Digital minimalism" [1] about a month and a half ago and decided to try out the 30 days tech fast in the book. The idea is to use this time to reset your relationship with tech and to really figure out what you value and what you are trying to accomplish with your tech habits. If other people are like me and struggle with compulsiveness with using the internet and computers, I recommend giving it a shot. [1] https://www.samuelthomasdavies.com/book-summaries/business/digital-minimalism/ https://www.samuelthomasdavies.com/book-summaries/business/d...
- offtop5 6y ago
  Thanks. Just ordered this book. I had to recently delete my Reddit account as I found myself getting drawn into needless arguments. Don't get me wrong, occasionally I would have fun learning new things, but like all other social media it turns into angry people yelling. Aside from Reddit I have been Social Media / Online Dating free for just under 2 years. It's amazing how much mental energy I would waste on this stuff. No judgement to people who enjoy social media, but it cutting it boosted my emotional health by leaps and bounds. More time for making music !
sradman 6y ago
The paper Multiple lifestyle factors and depressed mood: a cross-sectional and longitudinal analysis of the UK Biobank (N = 84,860) [1]. The study compares questionnaire results of healthy controls (HC) to people with a history of major depressive disorder (MDD): > Cross-sectional analysis of 84,860 participants showed that in both MDD and HCs, physical activity, healthy diet, and optimal sleep duration were associated with less frequency of depressed mood (all p < 0.001; ORs 0.62 to 0.94), whereas screen time and also tobacco smoking were associated with higher frequency of depressed mood (both p < 0.0001; ORs 1.09 to 1.36). This is correlation; it does not measure whether lifestyle interventions improve depressed mood. [1] https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-020-01813-5 https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1291...
- throwaway3178 6y ago
  I've been suicidally depressed my whole life. I currently self medicate with reddit, youtube, etc. If I let my mind wander for just a minute the thoughts come flooding in. I also find it very difficult to go to sleep because it involves turning off my distractions and being alone with my own mind. I think the title should be changed. I felt this way long before tech entered my life; as a child I used books for this purpose.
  - mmaunder 6y ago
    Try yoga. The three week yoga retreat that the Beachbody app has is great to learn it without going to a class. I simply repeat the final week’s flow. It may teach you how to still your mind by using the distraction of body movement to achieve a meditative state. This may allow you to ultimately meditate without the need for yoga. In other words, this may be a path for you to be alone with your mind without needing distraction. Best of luck.
  - prewett 6y ago
    I strongly recommend finding a good counselor or something along those lines for the flooding-thoughts. Self-medicating will help you survive, but it will not enable you to thrive. I've been doing what is effectively group counseling for the past couple of years and I've slowly learned to identify what the pain is that is driving my behaviors (it sounds like you might already be there), and from there, identifying the needs that are getting unmet. In my case, it's a desire for what St. Augustine describes as "home", a place where you are welcomed, or more broadly speaking, "community" (as opposed to a collection of friends which is what I have). I still have no idea how to get that, but I am making concrete changes to my life to at least randomly walk that direction.
colechristensen 6y ago
Yet another bullshit headline. They correlated less screen time with less depression, they did not demonstrate that taking action to reduce screen time resulted in reduced depression, much less indicating it to be “critical”.
brianmcc 6y ago
I intuitively agree that optimal sleep and exercise and diet and screen time probably make a difference to wellbeing, but am I alone in thinking that trying to determine a "link" between these things is lazy, easy, obvious and just wholly inadequate? We want to know, definitively, what are causes and effects. I appreciate that's hard. But why waste so much time and money just trying to establish "links" which are fundamentally just correlations. It's like admitting causation is hard, just aim instead for correlation - and call it quits after getting some headlines and maybe more funding...
- sp3000 6y ago
  Here is a cause and effect: Optimal neurotransmitter function highly depends on sleep quality and quantity (and you can further the connection to movement and nutrition as well). Sub-optimal neurotransmitter function can lead to sub-clinical or clinical depression. "Studies have shown that NREM sleep is important for turning off the norepinephrine, serotonin and histamine neurotransmitters, which in turn allows their receptors to “rest” and regain sensitivity [13]. This allows norepinephrine, serotonin and histamine to be more effective at naturally produced levels." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4651462/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4651462/
  - brianmcc 6y ago
    Thanks - that's more like it!
baron_harkonnen 6y ago
It's not entirely clear to me from reading the points in this article and skimming the paper that they are able to control the direction of causality for this. That is the question as to whether or not "healthy" activity prevents depression or if depression causes us to reduce our healthy activity (and increase our unhealthy ones). The pandemic has been a great experiment in this and has me starting to think that many of these studies might have the causal arrow wrong. I absolutely spent less time on the screen, ran more often, drank much less and slept better immediately before the pandemic. Running as an example became much harder to do emotionally after the a few months of the stress induced by the pandemic. The lack of other runners out there seemed to confirm that other people were also feeling this impact. I spend more time glued to the screen "doom scrolling" and you can bet my drinking is up as well. But it's certainly not like all of these behaviors happened and then stress set in (in this case I wouldn't say "depressed" as much as "stressed", ironically I'm probably the least depressed that I've been in years). It seems to me much more likely that compulsive behaviors in general, and in this case especially the example of screen time are produced by the depression rather than it's causes. Certainly there is the possibility of positive feed backs: depression causes excessive drinking which unchecked can clearly lead to more depression. Same goes for screen time, sleep etc.
- wpietri 6y ago
  Yeah, in my personal experience causality is not easily discernable. I definitely believe that for me a very regular sleep schedule helps my mood. But as you say, it's not a straightforward relationship. Bad sleep triggers bad mood when triggers bad coping behaviors that can disrupt my sleep, making it worse. Same thing for what I'm eating, exercise levels, amount of time invested in rewarding activities, how clean the house is, and I'm sure other things. It's a big causal snarl. That said, I do think focusing on good sleep is one of the most effective things I can do to manage my mood, so if people are going to have a too-simple understanding of things, "more sleep critical for preventing depression" is probably a pretty good one.
- robotresearcher 6y ago
  From the article: "A higher frequency of alcohol consumption was surprisingly associated with reduced frequency of depressed mood in people with depression. This may potentially be due to the self-medicating use of alcohol by those with depression to manage their mood." So they explicitly consider your point for alcohol consumption. But they don't seem to consider it for sleep, screen time, or exercise. To complicate things, I find alcohol negatively impacts sleep and exercise, so the hypothesed self-medication with booze could score multiple hits.
mmaunder 6y ago
I think sleep is critical for mental health and simply glancing at your bright cellphone screen during the night is an act of self sabotage. Even on the low setting with blue light filter on. It is still spectacularly bright compared to what our bodies have gotten used to over the past several millennia.
softwaredoug 6y ago
My iPhone X died recently, and I put my SIM card into an old iPhone 5. It's been great for limiting screentime. It has limited storage, so I can only put the most essential things on it. I can get spotify for podcasts, tethering, google auth for 2FA, and basic texting/phone/facetime functionality. It does basic web browsing, but rather slowly. Haven't needed much more than this. The main thing I miss is the ability to take lots of photos/videos of the kids....
IAmNotAFix 6y ago
Was this controlled for social interaction? For young people screens are just the standard fallback when you have nobody to hang out with (although surely not the healthiest one).
sangli 6y ago
Anectodal of course, but I can tell from my own experience that sleep cures so many things for me. Also lack of sleep causes many ailments in me. I am definitely sad and angry when I don't get enough sleep, on top of not having enough energy. If I have a headache, taking a nap or sleeping longer always fixes it for me. If I have aches in my thighs and calves, taking a nap or going to bed early and catching 8+ hours of sleep fixes it right up.
dkersten 6y ago
I love how a lot of commenters are redefining “screen time” to suit their opinions or otherwise rationalise their screen time, rather than taking the study as is. I mean, sure, perhaps different types of screen time have different impact and this requires further study, but using anecdotes and opinions isn’t that.
- bananabiscuit 6y ago
  Isn’t it pretty obvious not all screen time is the same? If it was then you could do these studies with people staring at simple glowing white rectangles and get identical results.
  - glogla 6y ago
    Yeah, screen time "doomscrolling", screen time "playing online board game with friends", screen time "reading a book" and screen time "watching a movie" are pretty different screen times.
    - metamet 6y ago
      But they're all... screens. And you're spending your time looking at them, regardless of what's on them and how you interact with it. I do agree that they are different. But they're still screens.
      - bananabiscuit 6y ago
        Right, so just because this study doesn’t bother to differentiate between different things people can do with screens, you are saying it’s all the same?
        falcolas 6y ago
        Insufficient information to make a reasonable conclusion, I'm guessing. It could very be related to what's on the screen, but it might not. Insufficient data. Screens are very new in relation to the development of human physiology, so I don't think we can assume that screens themselves are not a cause.
disease 6y ago
Does this mean recording music on a Tascam cassette recorder is better for me than doing the same on Ableton? Not trying to be snotty here, just wondering if it makes sense to categorize different kinds of screen time.
mrweasel 6y ago
That could help explain why it seems like 50% of users on Reddit and Imgur suffer from depression. They’re (partly) depressed because they spend to much time the media where they write about being depressed.
- waterhouse 6y ago
  The causality could also go the other way. The most visible users will be those who post a lot. And those who are depressed because their life sucks and they don't have much valuable stuff to do, or those who aren't doing much valuable stuff because their depression makes it too hard, are likely to have a lot of time during which posting on the site seems like the best available activity. It seems really difficult to separate causality here. Which is something that disappoints me about the article. The string "caus" does not occur on the webpage; three of the four bullet points say "associated", and the only bullet point that uses a causative-sounding phrase ("were protective of") sounds like it may be used to mean another statistical association rather than an established causation. Clicking through to the study, it seems to be 100% based on association of results that they got via surveys.
  - slx26 6y ago
    Yes, the title is very misleading. It's very important to educate people about this.
kqr 6y ago
Is this "just" another observational study? (I.e. subject to all manner of confounding factors that affect the multitude of similar studies that already exist.)
frankenst1 6y ago
"lessening screentime may reduce the symptoms of depression" Can anybody explain how they could possibly distinguish these two scenarios: - A) Depressed people watch more TV/screen. - B) Watching more TV makes people depressed. I would expect both to be true to varying degree (maybe A even more so than B), yet they seem to expect B to be the dominant causation.
varispeed 6y ago
Isn't that addressing the effect of someone's depression? It's a bit like saying you have a headache because you take painkillers. If person is unhappy "screen time" is just a coping mechanism. If you take it away, then the person will find something else to numb their worries. You need to have an honest talk with yourself or a therapist to get to the bottom why you feel this way and then see how you can address it. These "rule of thumb" things are akin to "why don't you just smile?" or "stop worrying" and don't help.
- blix 6y ago
  Cause and coping mechanism are not mutually exclusive.
  - varispeed 6y ago
    Yes, you can get into a feedback loop, but that needs to be talked about, not just outright dismissed.
    - blix 6y ago
      I don't feel it's dismissive at all. Yeah "rules of thumb" and correlational studies are imperfect, but I think they are better than nothing. It's usually easier to break out of a feedback loop once you recognize that you are in one.
      - varispeed 6y ago
        This is exactly what therapy helps with, but if you don't know what triggers it, then simply reducing screen time will not solve anything, because you'll be missing something. It's good to learn about mindfulness, asking yourself questions e.g. why am I spending time on my phone now? and going deeper.
ppod 6y ago
A couple of interesting things about the journey from the press release to the story: the press release says "associated with", but the summary says "impacts on", and the headline says "critical for preventing"! Also, they pick "screen time and sleep" from among five factors, the others were less tobacco smoking, more physical exercise and more (yes) alcohol. I don't have a problem with causal claims from these kinds of methods in principle, if the regression is well done with good controls. But I'm not at all convinced that they can isolate self-reported sedentary screen time reliably from self-reported physical activity. https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s12916-020-01813-5.pdf https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s129...
sjg007 6y ago
Is the screen time thing about blue light? I mean I sleep way better and feel way better when I am camping away from artificial lights. In that respect I think artificial lighting causes depression and lack of sleep.
brudgers 6y ago
Depression is not a lifestyle choice. Our eating, exercise, sleep, etc. are habits developed over a lifetime. Chronic health issues, sexual abuse, traumatic death of a loved one, and bad luck are what to avoid. And of course some formulations of brain chemistry. Casting depression as a lifestyle issue is a step backward. Mental health is already stigmatized far too much. Depression is not a moral failing of will power. It’s a response to adversity. A way profound unhappiness manifests. Kale, a peloton, and deleting Facebook won’t change the past.
- johnfn 6y ago
  I think this is a little too one-sided. Yes, there is a group of people who have depression due to factors outside of their control, and we should all be cognizant of that. But that doesn't mean that literally every person who's depressed falls into that group. There's another group of people who are depressed due to factors at least somewhat within their control.
  - brudgers 6y ago
    The assertion that people suffering depression can be divided into those suffering due to factors beyond their control and those suffering by choice is not supported by the article. People with a mental illness often are able to manage their symptoms. But the symptoms are not the cause of their mental illness. A schizophrenic is not schizophrenic because they choose not to take a prescribed medication that mitigates the visible symptoms of schizophrenia. An unhealthy lifestyle is a common symptom of depression. Lots of screen time, poor diet, low quality sleep, and inertia are factors in clinical diagnosis of depression. They are things that might lead a person to decide someone might be depressed.
- W4ldi 6y ago
  Depression does not have to be moral failing of will power, but it definitely can be cured by moral success of will power.
- W4ldi 6y ago
  The more I think about this comment, the more it just seems so wrong. Yes, depression is not always caused by lifestyle, but it definitely can be. What you are saying just sounds like an excuse for taking the easy path. If trying to change your lifestyle to fix your mental health is a bad thing, what is your counter suggestion? Taking pills that make you addicted, not solve the problem and make everything worse if you stop taking them? I know there are cases, where medication is inevitable and is the only option. But this is a minority. The vast majority of mental health issues we have today, are caused by lack of virtue and values, choice of diet, sleep and lack of social interactions.
metalrain 6y ago
Makes perfect sense. When you eat, sleep and exercise well your body and mind gets better. You can always ask if more screen time causes more depression or more depression causes more screen time.
sabujp 6y ago
sleep deprivation also leads to irratibility, you just become a shitty human
theodric 6y ago
So you're saying depression is incurable? Fuck!
arduinomancer 6y ago
> critical for preventing depression How did they make the jump from "people with high frequency of depressed moods have more screen time" to "less screen time is critical for preventing depression"? Its possible that is true but claiming this based on the study is like saying "less lying in your bed all day is critical for preventing depression"
baron816 6y ago
I’d really like to see Apple/Google or others try to turn screen time into a sort of currency. A child does some chores? They get 30 minutes of scene time added to their bank account. They keep some screen time unused and they earn interest on that time they can cash out later. Their sibling has a birthday? Let them transfer some time as a gift. Limit screen time and build some financial literacy and delayed gratification at the same time.
- bingerman 6y ago
  I prefer managing my childrens' screen time myself rather than delegating yet another thing to some cold institution or those outright evil companies. Thankfully in my case they are usually more interested in real three dimensional things so there is very little to manage. In my opinion screen time is like the worst reward for your child. Screens should be treated like inherently evil tools that can be of value if used with awareness.
deevolution 6y ago
Anecdotely, I can confirm that most of the time that I read hackernews comments I tend to get depressed.
ummonk 6y ago
Longitudinal study is better, but still, the causation likely goes both ways. Decreased sleep, worse diet, and more screentime are all things that happen due to getting increasingly depressed. They also drive depression (at least decreased sleep and worse diet do, and screentime likely does to the extent it is a proxy for lack of sunlight and human interaction).
bfors 6y ago
One small thing that has really helped me mitigate the downsides of screen time is keeping my phone out of my bedroom. It charges at my desk. No more laying in bed scrolling before or after I wake up. I sleep better and feel better.
eikenberry 6y ago
I made it as far as this quote (which is from the paper) "higher frequency of alcohol consumption was surprisingly associated", which then opened the question as to whether the researchers had pre-determined their results and fit the data to them. Researchers expressing surprise at the results in a study I take as a sign of bias.
nippoo 6y ago
I honestly think (for me, at least) the implied causation is the wrong way round here. When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. When I'm feeling great, I'm generally motivated to go outside / do DIY / read / have a lot less screen time. I initially spent lots of effort trying to reduce my screen time (parental controls, etc) before realising that it was probably an indicator, not a cause!
- Florin_Andrei 6y ago
  You're highlighting the feedback mechanism that this disease uses to maintain itself. The spiral of doom. Any attempt to break it is beneficial, though it may feel like the opposite is happening.
  - bgroat 6y ago
    I remember once explaining to a friend that depression wasn't really "feeling sad all the time" It was more like "Emotional AIDS" - it's not that the depression made me sad, it just took away all my emotional immunity/resilience
    - colecut 6y ago
      No idea why this would be downvoted. I lost my only sibling to an overdose last year. I lost the mother of my child to cancer in February. Three days later, my current gf was diagnosed with cancer. Even when I'm not sad, I'm definitely highly irritable, easily overwhelmed, lack patience...
- rjkennedy98 6y ago
  > When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. Switch "on my phone" with "drinking alcohol" and that's literally how all alcoholics think.
  - kylecazar 6y ago
    Ehh -- I'd just reconsider the 'literally all' part. There are alcoholics who just chase the feeling for itself -- a quick fix for sad thoughts, but not for all. It's a complicated disease, but some with issues crave booze regardless of how they're doing mentally. At least in my somewhat limited experience.
Paianni 6y ago
I'm pretty close to selling off all my smartphones for this reason, it's the only way I can remove the temptation.
theuri 6y ago
For anyone interested in this thread - "The Upward Spiral" is a related book worth reading, that dives into both the neuroscience of depression and practical steps to work one's way out of it. https://www.amazon.com/Upward-Spiral-Neuroscience-Reverse-Depression/dp/1626251207 https://www.amazon.com/Upward-Spiral-Neuroscience-Reverse-De...
DoreenMichele 6y ago
It starts off with this extremely neutral and reasonable statement that says nothing about causation: Screen time and tobacco smoking were also significantly associated with higher frequency of depressed mood. And then goes on to say "We need to limit screen time" which is a baseless conclusion. Smoking is known to mediate depression because of what it does to brain chemistry. One medication that gets prescribed to treat depression has such a strong track record of causing people to stop smoking as a side effect that it now gets prescribed for that purpose. I will agree with commenters here objecting to the framing that "You need to reduce screen time as a means to treat depression." That assumption is unwarranted and not nuanced. Screen time likely goes up when you are tired and sick. Being tired and sick can help foster depression. The solution in a case like that is not "You need less screen time." It's "You need to get well and better rested." When I'm sick and tired, I spend all my time on the computer and/or playing games on my phone to keep myself occupied so I don't go nuts. Taking away my screen time at such times would be a net harm (yes, I know this for a fact). Granted, I have at times had to make judgment calls about how I spend that time to make sure it's constructive and not a bad habit.
fulafel 6y ago
What are the options for voice based interaction with software? Eg it might be cool to have audio based Ingress style AR/reality games, that would involve narration and speech recognition. Do they exist? (edit: apparently yes - https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/playcrafting-and-bose-reveal-32-new-audio-ar-games-created-exclusively-for-the-bose-ar-platform-300977659.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/playcrafting-and-bo... - but also no: https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/bose-ends-audio-ar-platform/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/bose-ends-audio-a...)
ElijahLynn 6y ago
Personal experience says this is 100% true. I can do all the other things perfectly but if I don't get enough sleep and consume a ton of social/news feeds, forget about it.
dorkwood 6y ago
I think it depends what you're doing on the screen. Unfortunately, people no longer seem to distinguish between activities such as 'endlessly scrolling through Twitter' and 'making music in Ableton'. It's all just 'screen time', and it's bad for your mental health.
- OJFord 6y ago
  It says [0] the question excluded computer hours at work. Which seems bizarre in itself and to address the title, but does go quite some way to your point. (Most people's recreational computer time, I dare say, is 'mindless Twitter scrolling' and the like.) And as a more general point, it's looking at 'history of major depressive disorder (MDD)' or not, not merely feeling a bit glum. I don't think the takeaway is supposed to be a tabloid-style 'avoid screen or become suicide risk', it's more like lifestyle choices you can make to maybe mitigate an issue you already present with. (IANA GP/psychologist/anything relevant, though.) [0]: https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-020-01813-5 https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1291...

439 points by rustoo 6y ago

Neither this article nor the research paper support the claim from the headline. A correlation was found, no causation afaict.

achandlerwhite 6y ago

I don’t know. I feel like screen time is a misnomer. From my anecdata less social media more sleep is the key. If my screen time is reading a kindle or learning programming I doubt the impact is so bad. Of course anything taken to an extreme...

baxtr 6y ago
This and endless reloads of news sites
steve_adams_86 6y ago
This is what something like a kindle shines. That isn’t such a bad form of screen time. Other devices are dangerous for me because, well, here I am on HN rather than preparing for my day. If I picked up my kindle instead I wouldn’t be on HN.
- bigredhdl 6y ago
  Does anyone have experience where newer kindles or other e-readers keep them awake less than other ones? I have a 1st generation kindle paperwhite, but I still feel like the front light on it keeps me from getting sleepy versus just reading a physical book.

deepstack 6y ago

More sleep time is critical for preventing depression period. It is not rocket science. Everyone can tell from their own person experience. Now it could be sometime when one is depressed one can't sleep. However, sleep pretty much helps every many things.

deepstack 6y ago
this is the reason why I think tech company ought to let employee sleep whenever they want as long as they want at work (not at meetings of course, although that is tempting sometimes), as long as they get their work done on time.
- duopixel 6y ago
  When I work for myself, I nap at the slightest sensation of drowsiness. I’m not productive nor efficient while sleepy. Yet I’ve wasted so many hours in mindless stupor for my employers (especially after lunch) because napping on the clock is taboo.
- behnamoh 6y ago
  I can't tell you how many times I wished there were "sleep rooms" in our university to wind down in afternoons and get refreshed for more study and work. They should at least offer them for PhD students who spend most their life in office.
bserge 6y ago
But not too much. I used to sleep 10-12 hours during depressive episodes when I had nothing important to do, it just makes things worse. Over 7-8 hours of sleep just makes me tired and sleepy the whole day (paradoxical, yeah). Forcing a limit helps a lot more.
- brianmcc 6y ago
  The article seems to agree with you - it presents optimal sleep as important, 7 - 9 hours.
- the_only_law 6y ago
  Yeah I either sleep 0-5 hours or 12+, rarely in between. Interestingly I usually feel better with the former (for a few hours before the microsleeps hit, at least). When i sleep late, I normally wake up with a bad headache, sore, really bad brain fog, etc.

dpeck 6y ago

Not all screen time is the same and it’s far beyond time for us to stop equivocating Facebook/Instagram and other social media nastiness with all the positive things that can be done on a screen. It confuses people, and as we stare down another quarantine and a long cold winter telling people to spend less time with what could be their only contact to the outside world can be actively harmful.

yepthatsreality 6y ago
Agreed computers are tools for productivity and entertainment. You should set yourself up for success and utilize your machine/time accordingly. These are the first steps to exiting the screen time nightmare one may find themselves in.
nkozyra 6y ago
I just read the abstracts of one of the studies[1] and it's really including TV and general computer time, not necessarily social media time. It also references a study that seems to focus more on computer time and "information" overload (at least from the abstract).[2] I think it's a mistake to assume that sedentary screen time is not impactful so long as you're avoiding social media. [1] https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-020-01813-5 https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1291... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31059635/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31059635/
- godelski 6y ago
  I think there are big questions on what screen time actual is though. Isn't general computer time essentially social media? At least for most people? Most people also aren't watching documentaries on TV or doing things that exercise the brain. All admit I didn't read your sources but I'm assuming reading books isn't detrimental so it's probably not the sedentary nature of the activity (I could be completely off). I do think that since these days we use computers so much that it does warrant breaking down the activity. Does anyone have a study that does do this comparison?
sneak 6y ago

sudo_rm 6y ago

Lately I have been doing my best to limit my "optional" screen time (optional meaning anything that is not for work and school). I fingered though Cal Newport's "Digital minimalism" [1] about a month and a half ago and decided to try out the 30 days tech fast in the book. The idea is to use this time to reset your relationship with tech and to really figure out what you value and what you are trying to accomplish with your tech habits. If other people are like me and struggle with compulsiveness with using the internet and computers, I recommend giving it a shot. [1] https://www.samuelthomasdavies.com/book-summaries/business/digital-minimalism/ https://www.samuelthomasdavies.com/book-summaries/business/d...

offtop5 6y ago
Thanks. Just ordered this book. I had to recently delete my Reddit account as I found myself getting drawn into needless arguments. Don't get me wrong, occasionally I would have fun learning new things, but like all other social media it turns into angry people yelling. Aside from Reddit I have been Social Media / Online Dating free for just under 2 years. It's amazing how much mental energy I would waste on this stuff. No judgement to people who enjoy social media, but it cutting it boosted my emotional health by leaps and bounds. More time for making music !

sradman 6y ago

The paper Multiple lifestyle factors and depressed mood: a cross-sectional and longitudinal analysis of the UK Biobank (N = 84,860) [1]. The study compares questionnaire results of healthy controls (HC) to people with a history of major depressive disorder (MDD): > Cross-sectional analysis of 84,860 participants showed that in both MDD and HCs, physical activity, healthy diet, and optimal sleep duration were associated with less frequency of depressed mood (all p < 0.001; ORs 0.62 to 0.94), whereas screen time and also tobacco smoking were associated with higher frequency of depressed mood (both p < 0.0001; ORs 1.09 to 1.36). This is correlation; it does not measure whether lifestyle interventions improve depressed mood. [1] https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-020-01813-5 https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1291...

throwaway3178 6y ago
I've been suicidally depressed my whole life. I currently self medicate with reddit, youtube, etc. If I let my mind wander for just a minute the thoughts come flooding in. I also find it very difficult to go to sleep because it involves turning off my distractions and being alone with my own mind. I think the title should be changed. I felt this way long before tech entered my life; as a child I used books for this purpose.
- mmaunder 6y ago
  Try yoga. The three week yoga retreat that the Beachbody app has is great to learn it without going to a class. I simply repeat the final week’s flow. It may teach you how to still your mind by using the distraction of body movement to achieve a meditative state. This may allow you to ultimately meditate without the need for yoga. In other words, this may be a path for you to be alone with your mind without needing distraction. Best of luck.
- prewett 6y ago
  I strongly recommend finding a good counselor or something along those lines for the flooding-thoughts. Self-medicating will help you survive, but it will not enable you to thrive. I've been doing what is effectively group counseling for the past couple of years and I've slowly learned to identify what the pain is that is driving my behaviors (it sounds like you might already be there), and from there, identifying the needs that are getting unmet. In my case, it's a desire for what St. Augustine describes as "home", a place where you are welcomed, or more broadly speaking, "community" (as opposed to a collection of friends which is what I have). I still have no idea how to get that, but I am making concrete changes to my life to at least randomly walk that direction.

colechristensen 6y ago

Yet another bullshit headline. They correlated less screen time with less depression, they did not demonstrate that taking action to reduce screen time resulted in reduced depression, much less indicating it to be “critical”.

brianmcc 6y ago

I intuitively agree that optimal sleep and exercise and diet and screen time probably make a difference to wellbeing, but am I alone in thinking that trying to determine a "link" between these things is lazy, easy, obvious and just wholly inadequate? We want to know, definitively, what are causes and effects. I appreciate that's hard. But why waste so much time and money just trying to establish "links" which are fundamentally just correlations. It's like admitting causation is hard, just aim instead for correlation - and call it quits after getting some headlines and maybe more funding...

sp3000 6y ago
Here is a cause and effect: Optimal neurotransmitter function highly depends on sleep quality and quantity (and you can further the connection to movement and nutrition as well). Sub-optimal neurotransmitter function can lead to sub-clinical or clinical depression. "Studies have shown that NREM sleep is important for turning off the norepinephrine, serotonin and histamine neurotransmitters, which in turn allows their receptors to “rest” and regain sensitivity [13]. This allows norepinephrine, serotonin and histamine to be more effective at naturally produced levels." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4651462/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4651462/
- brianmcc 6y ago
  Thanks - that's more like it!

baron_harkonnen 6y ago

It's not entirely clear to me from reading the points in this article and skimming the paper that they are able to control the direction of causality for this. That is the question as to whether or not "healthy" activity prevents depression or if depression causes us to reduce our healthy activity (and increase our unhealthy ones). The pandemic has been a great experiment in this and has me starting to think that many of these studies might have the causal arrow wrong. I absolutely spent less time on the screen, ran more often, drank much less and slept better immediately before the pandemic. Running as an example became much harder to do emotionally after the a few months of the stress induced by the pandemic. The lack of other runners out there seemed to confirm that other people were also feeling this impact. I spend more time glued to the screen "doom scrolling" and you can bet my drinking is up as well. But it's certainly not like all of these behaviors happened and then stress set in (in this case I wouldn't say "depressed" as much as "stressed", ironically I'm probably the least depressed that I've been in years). It seems to me much more likely that compulsive behaviors in general, and in this case especially the example of screen time are produced by the depression rather than it's causes. Certainly there is the possibility of positive feed backs: depression causes excessive drinking which unchecked can clearly lead to more depression. Same goes for screen time, sleep etc.

wpietri 6y ago
Yeah, in my personal experience causality is not easily discernable. I definitely believe that for me a very regular sleep schedule helps my mood. But as you say, it's not a straightforward relationship. Bad sleep triggers bad mood when triggers bad coping behaviors that can disrupt my sleep, making it worse. Same thing for what I'm eating, exercise levels, amount of time invested in rewarding activities, how clean the house is, and I'm sure other things. It's a big causal snarl. That said, I do think focusing on good sleep is one of the most effective things I can do to manage my mood, so if people are going to have a too-simple understanding of things, "more sleep critical for preventing depression" is probably a pretty good one.
robotresearcher 6y ago
From the article: "A higher frequency of alcohol consumption was surprisingly associated with reduced frequency of depressed mood in people with depression. This may potentially be due to the self-medicating use of alcohol by those with depression to manage their mood." So they explicitly consider your point for alcohol consumption. But they don't seem to consider it for sleep, screen time, or exercise. To complicate things, I find alcohol negatively impacts sleep and exercise, so the hypothesed self-medication with booze could score multiple hits.

mmaunder 6y ago

I think sleep is critical for mental health and simply glancing at your bright cellphone screen during the night is an act of self sabotage. Even on the low setting with blue light filter on. It is still spectacularly bright compared to what our bodies have gotten used to over the past several millennia.

softwaredoug 6y ago

My iPhone X died recently, and I put my SIM card into an old iPhone 5. It's been great for limiting screentime. It has limited storage, so I can only put the most essential things on it. I can get spotify for podcasts, tethering, google auth for 2FA, and basic texting/phone/facetime functionality. It does basic web browsing, but rather slowly. Haven't needed much more than this. The main thing I miss is the ability to take lots of photos/videos of the kids....

IAmNotAFix 6y ago

Was this controlled for social interaction? For young people screens are just the standard fallback when you have nobody to hang out with (although surely not the healthiest one).

sangli 6y ago

Anectodal of course, but I can tell from my own experience that sleep cures so many things for me. Also lack of sleep causes many ailments in me. I am definitely sad and angry when I don't get enough sleep, on top of not having enough energy. If I have a headache, taking a nap or sleeping longer always fixes it for me. If I have aches in my thighs and calves, taking a nap or going to bed early and catching 8+ hours of sleep fixes it right up.

dkersten 6y ago

I love how a lot of commenters are redefining “screen time” to suit their opinions or otherwise rationalise their screen time, rather than taking the study as is. I mean, sure, perhaps different types of screen time have different impact and this requires further study, but using anecdotes and opinions isn’t that.

bananabiscuit 6y ago
Isn’t it pretty obvious not all screen time is the same? If it was then you could do these studies with people staring at simple glowing white rectangles and get identical results.
- glogla 6y ago
  Yeah, screen time "doomscrolling", screen time "playing online board game with friends", screen time "reading a book" and screen time "watching a movie" are pretty different screen times.
  - metamet 6y ago
    But they're all... screens. And you're spending your time looking at them, regardless of what's on them and how you interact with it. I do agree that they are different. But they're still screens.
    - bananabiscuit 6y ago
      Right, so just because this study doesn’t bother to differentiate between different things people can do with screens, you are saying it’s all the same?
      - falcolas 6y ago
        Insufficient information to make a reasonable conclusion, I'm guessing. It could very be related to what's on the screen, but it might not. Insufficient data. Screens are very new in relation to the development of human physiology, so I don't think we can assume that screens themselves are not a cause.

disease 6y ago

Does this mean recording music on a Tascam cassette recorder is better for me than doing the same on Ableton? Not trying to be snotty here, just wondering if it makes sense to categorize different kinds of screen time.

mrweasel 6y ago

That could help explain why it seems like 50% of users on Reddit and Imgur suffer from depression. They’re (partly) depressed because they spend to much time the media where they write about being depressed.

waterhouse 6y ago
The causality could also go the other way. The most visible users will be those who post a lot. And those who are depressed because their life sucks and they don't have much valuable stuff to do, or those who aren't doing much valuable stuff because their depression makes it too hard, are likely to have a lot of time during which posting on the site seems like the best available activity. It seems really difficult to separate causality here. Which is something that disappoints me about the article. The string "caus" does not occur on the webpage; three of the four bullet points say "associated", and the only bullet point that uses a causative-sounding phrase ("were protective of") sounds like it may be used to mean another statistical association rather than an established causation. Clicking through to the study, it seems to be 100% based on association of results that they got via surveys.
- slx26 6y ago
  Yes, the title is very misleading. It's very important to educate people about this.

kqr 6y ago

Is this "just" another observational study? (I.e. subject to all manner of confounding factors that affect the multitude of similar studies that already exist.)

frankenst1 6y ago

"lessening screentime may reduce the symptoms of depression" Can anybody explain how they could possibly distinguish these two scenarios: - A) Depressed people watch more TV/screen. - B) Watching more TV makes people depressed. I would expect both to be true to varying degree (maybe A even more so than B), yet they seem to expect B to be the dominant causation.

varispeed 6y ago

Isn't that addressing the effect of someone's depression? It's a bit like saying you have a headache because you take painkillers. If person is unhappy "screen time" is just a coping mechanism. If you take it away, then the person will find something else to numb their worries. You need to have an honest talk with yourself or a therapist to get to the bottom why you feel this way and then see how you can address it. These "rule of thumb" things are akin to "why don't you just smile?" or "stop worrying" and don't help.

blix 6y ago
Cause and coping mechanism are not mutually exclusive.
- varispeed 6y ago
  Yes, you can get into a feedback loop, but that needs to be talked about, not just outright dismissed.
  - blix 6y ago
    I don't feel it's dismissive at all. Yeah "rules of thumb" and correlational studies are imperfect, but I think they are better than nothing. It's usually easier to break out of a feedback loop once you recognize that you are in one.
    - varispeed 6y ago
      This is exactly what therapy helps with, but if you don't know what triggers it, then simply reducing screen time will not solve anything, because you'll be missing something. It's good to learn about mindfulness, asking yourself questions e.g. why am I spending time on my phone now? and going deeper.

ppod 6y ago

A couple of interesting things about the journey from the press release to the story: the press release says "associated with", but the summary says "impacts on", and the headline says "critical for preventing"! Also, they pick "screen time and sleep" from among five factors, the others were less tobacco smoking, more physical exercise and more (yes) alcohol. I don't have a problem with causal claims from these kinds of methods in principle, if the regression is well done with good controls. But I'm not at all convinced that they can isolate self-reported sedentary screen time reliably from self-reported physical activity. https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s12916-020-01813-5.pdf https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s129...

sjg007 6y ago

Is the screen time thing about blue light? I mean I sleep way better and feel way better when I am camping away from artificial lights. In that respect I think artificial lighting causes depression and lack of sleep.

brudgers 6y ago

Depression is not a lifestyle choice. Our eating, exercise, sleep, etc. are habits developed over a lifetime. Chronic health issues, sexual abuse, traumatic death of a loved one, and bad luck are what to avoid. And of course some formulations of brain chemistry. Casting depression as a lifestyle issue is a step backward. Mental health is already stigmatized far too much. Depression is not a moral failing of will power. It’s a response to adversity. A way profound unhappiness manifests. Kale, a peloton, and deleting Facebook won’t change the past.

johnfn 6y ago
I think this is a little too one-sided. Yes, there is a group of people who have depression due to factors outside of their control, and we should all be cognizant of that. But that doesn't mean that literally every person who's depressed falls into that group. There's another group of people who are depressed due to factors at least somewhat within their control.
- brudgers 6y ago
  The assertion that people suffering depression can be divided into those suffering due to factors beyond their control and those suffering by choice is not supported by the article. People with a mental illness often are able to manage their symptoms. But the symptoms are not the cause of their mental illness. A schizophrenic is not schizophrenic because they choose not to take a prescribed medication that mitigates the visible symptoms of schizophrenia. An unhealthy lifestyle is a common symptom of depression. Lots of screen time, poor diet, low quality sleep, and inertia are factors in clinical diagnosis of depression. They are things that might lead a person to decide someone might be depressed.
W4ldi 6y ago
Depression does not have to be moral failing of will power, but it definitely can be cured by moral success of will power.
W4ldi 6y ago
The more I think about this comment, the more it just seems so wrong. Yes, depression is not always caused by lifestyle, but it definitely can be. What you are saying just sounds like an excuse for taking the easy path. If trying to change your lifestyle to fix your mental health is a bad thing, what is your counter suggestion? Taking pills that make you addicted, not solve the problem and make everything worse if you stop taking them? I know there are cases, where medication is inevitable and is the only option. But this is a minority. The vast majority of mental health issues we have today, are caused by lack of virtue and values, choice of diet, sleep and lack of social interactions.

metalrain 6y ago

Makes perfect sense. When you eat, sleep and exercise well your body and mind gets better. You can always ask if more screen time causes more depression or more depression causes more screen time.

sabujp 6y ago

sleep deprivation also leads to irratibility, you just become a shitty human

theodric 6y ago

So you're saying depression is incurable? Fuck!

arduinomancer 6y ago

> critical for preventing depression How did they make the jump from "people with high frequency of depressed moods have more screen time" to "less screen time is critical for preventing depression"? Its possible that is true but claiming this based on the study is like saying "less lying in your bed all day is critical for preventing depression"

baron816 6y ago

I’d really like to see Apple/Google or others try to turn screen time into a sort of currency. A child does some chores? They get 30 minutes of scene time added to their bank account. They keep some screen time unused and they earn interest on that time they can cash out later. Their sibling has a birthday? Let them transfer some time as a gift. Limit screen time and build some financial literacy and delayed gratification at the same time.

bingerman 6y ago
I prefer managing my childrens' screen time myself rather than delegating yet another thing to some cold institution or those outright evil companies. Thankfully in my case they are usually more interested in real three dimensional things so there is very little to manage. In my opinion screen time is like the worst reward for your child. Screens should be treated like inherently evil tools that can be of value if used with awareness.

deevolution 6y ago

Anecdotely, I can confirm that most of the time that I read hackernews comments I tend to get depressed.

ummonk 6y ago

Longitudinal study is better, but still, the causation likely goes both ways. Decreased sleep, worse diet, and more screentime are all things that happen due to getting increasingly depressed. They also drive depression (at least decreased sleep and worse diet do, and screentime likely does to the extent it is a proxy for lack of sunlight and human interaction).

bfors 6y ago

One small thing that has really helped me mitigate the downsides of screen time is keeping my phone out of my bedroom. It charges at my desk. No more laying in bed scrolling before or after I wake up. I sleep better and feel better.

eikenberry 6y ago

I made it as far as this quote (which is from the paper) "higher frequency of alcohol consumption was surprisingly associated", which then opened the question as to whether the researchers had pre-determined their results and fit the data to them. Researchers expressing surprise at the results in a study I take as a sign of bias.

nippoo 6y ago

I honestly think (for me, at least) the implied causation is the wrong way round here. When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. When I'm feeling great, I'm generally motivated to go outside / do DIY / read / have a lot less screen time. I initially spent lots of effort trying to reduce my screen time (parental controls, etc) before realising that it was probably an indicator, not a cause!

Florin_Andrei 6y ago
You're highlighting the feedback mechanism that this disease uses to maintain itself. The spiral of doom. Any attempt to break it is beneficial, though it may feel like the opposite is happening.
- bgroat 6y ago
  I remember once explaining to a friend that depression wasn't really "feeling sad all the time" It was more like "Emotional AIDS" - it's not that the depression made me sad, it just took away all my emotional immunity/resilience
  - colecut 6y ago
    No idea why this would be downvoted. I lost my only sibling to an overdose last year. I lost the mother of my child to cancer in February. Three days later, my current gf was diagnosed with cancer. Even when I'm not sad, I'm definitely highly irritable, easily overwhelmed, lack patience...
rjkennedy98 6y ago
> When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. Switch "on my phone" with "drinking alcohol" and that's literally how all alcoholics think.
- kylecazar 6y ago
  Ehh -- I'd just reconsider the 'literally all' part. There are alcoholics who just chase the feeling for itself -- a quick fix for sad thoughts, but not for all. It's a complicated disease, but some with issues crave booze regardless of how they're doing mentally. At least in my somewhat limited experience.

Paianni 6y ago

I'm pretty close to selling off all my smartphones for this reason, it's the only way I can remove the temptation.

theuri 6y ago

For anyone interested in this thread - "The Upward Spiral" is a related book worth reading, that dives into both the neuroscience of depression and practical steps to work one's way out of it. https://www.amazon.com/Upward-Spiral-Neuroscience-Reverse-Depression/dp/1626251207 https://www.amazon.com/Upward-Spiral-Neuroscience-Reverse-De...

DoreenMichele 6y ago

It starts off with this extremely neutral and reasonable statement that says nothing about causation: Screen time and tobacco smoking were also significantly associated with higher frequency of depressed mood. And then goes on to say "We need to limit screen time" which is a baseless conclusion. Smoking is known to mediate depression because of what it does to brain chemistry. One medication that gets prescribed to treat depression has such a strong track record of causing people to stop smoking as a side effect that it now gets prescribed for that purpose. I will agree with commenters here objecting to the framing that "You need to reduce screen time as a means to treat depression." That assumption is unwarranted and not nuanced. Screen time likely goes up when you are tired and sick. Being tired and sick can help foster depression. The solution in a case like that is not "You need less screen time." It's "You need to get well and better rested." When I'm sick and tired, I spend all my time on the computer and/or playing games on my phone to keep myself occupied so I don't go nuts. Taking away my screen time at such times would be a net harm (yes, I know this for a fact). Granted, I have at times had to make judgment calls about how I spend that time to make sure it's constructive and not a bad habit.

fulafel 6y ago

What are the options for voice based interaction with software? Eg it might be cool to have audio based Ingress style AR/reality games, that would involve narration and speech recognition. Do they exist? (edit: apparently yes - https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/playcrafting-and-bose-reveal-32-new-audio-ar-games-created-exclusively-for-the-bose-ar-platform-300977659.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/playcrafting-and-bo... - but also no: https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/bose-ends-audio-ar-platform/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/bose-ends-audio-a...)

ElijahLynn 6y ago

Personal experience says this is 100% true. I can do all the other things perfectly but if I don't get enough sleep and consume a ton of social/news feeds, forget about it.

dorkwood 6y ago

I think it depends what you're doing on the screen. Unfortunately, people no longer seem to distinguish between activities such as 'endlessly scrolling through Twitter' and 'making music in Ableton'. It's all just 'screen time', and it's bad for your mental health.

OJFord 6y ago
It says [0] the question excluded computer hours at work. Which seems bizarre in itself and to address the title, but does go quite some way to your point. (Most people's recreational computer time, I dare say, is 'mindless Twitter scrolling' and the like.) And as a more general point, it's looking at 'history of major depressive disorder (MDD)' or not, not merely feeling a bit glum. I don't think the takeaway is supposed to be a tabloid-style 'avoid screen or become suicide risk', it's more like lifestyle choices you can make to maybe mitigate an issue you already present with. (IANA GP/psychologist/anything relevant, though.) [0]: https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-020-01813-5 https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1291...