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And what do you expect us to do, install Linux and spend days configuring the touchpad? Computers are a tool we use to do our work. Setting up the computer can
by eznzt 6y ago
And what do you expect us to do, install Linux and spend days configuring the touchpad?
Computers are a tool we use to do our work. Setting up the computer cannot become a job by itself.
- flohofwoe 6y agoAn open computing device doesn't need to be unusable, and a usable computing device doesn't need to be locked up. There's a lot of space to explore between those extremes.
- pydry 6y agoI've spent far more of my life trying to getting development environment shit working on a Mac than I ever have getting touch pads working on Ubuntu. For example, the latest version of Mac OS broke docker - literally today we discovered this.
- ovi256 6y ago>latest version of Mac OS broke docker That's wrong, Docker will run fine on M1/Big Sur after an ARM release and probably some patching. Not too different what you'd expect on any major OS release.
- moondev 6y agoHow do you know it will?
- smsx 6y agoBecause Docker has a large financial incentive to get it working?
- ovi256 6y agoBecause M1 has virtualization and emulation support, unlike the A12Z (not M1) ARM processor on which the docker issue was opened. This is explained here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25073010 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25073010 And Docker has the motivation and means to patch and build the M1 Arm version. You can take it directly from the Docker people: > Thanks. We're working closely on this with Apple. This is expected right now (and indeed there's nothing we can do about it yet) as the new chips don't have virtualisation support yet. https://github.com/docker/for-mac/issues/4733 https://github.com/docker/for-mac/issues/4733 Notice the lack of panic or any mention of "it'll never be done", even implied.
- easton 6y agoApple showed it on stage at WWDC, along with Debian ARM running inside a VM. It's coming, if for no other reason than developers inside Apple need it when writing infrastructure software. (Honestly, I'm surprised that Docker didn't get the same pre-release hardware Parallels did)
- spurgu 6y agoNot the most productive comment, but I always wait 6-12 month before doing a major upgrade - I let other people find issues like this. Or just wait a month if you're in a hurry for some reason.
- jacobedawson 6y agoThere's probably a business opportunity in that ;)
- Freak_NL 6y agoBuy one of the many laptops that work out of the box with GNU/Linux. Vote for manufacturers with your money. It's not that hard. I haven't had to spends days configuring anything for over a decade.
- julianlam 6y agoMy colleagues often joke that I have to recompile my kernel whenever I want to do something novel with my computer. I play along, but I haven't compiled a single thing in years. I don't even think proper build tools are installed on my PC.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y agoI find that statement a bit dubious, but I guess if you only use tools that are in the repo and Chrome that's probably easy enough to accomplish. I remember fairly recently having to compile my own dosbox because of a many-years-old bug that remains unfixed and causes garbage graphics in black borders [0]. My history of using Linux desktop is riddled with crap like that. [0] https://sourceforge.net/p/dosbox/bugs/447/ https://sourceforge.net/p/dosbox/bugs/447/
- vbezhenar 6y agoUse mouse. It works out of the box and more convenient anyway.
- marvin 6y agoThe exceptionally good touchpad on the macbooks are almost half the reason you’d buy the machine in the first place. Wish it was as good on the alternatives. Hopefully it works 100% out of the box, but I wouldn’t bet my life on it.
- Nullabillity 6y agoWhat are you on about? Apple's touchpads feel like mush, even by touchpad standards.
- ab8 6y agoI dont believe people have many complaints when it comes to the usability of Apple hardware. Touchbar excluded of course. And that keyboard.
- amalantony06 6y agoThis is not the case any more. A few months ago I migrated out of the MacOS ecosystem and got myself a Thinkpad X1 Carbon. I run Fedora on it. It works seamlessly just like MacOS did on a Macbook. Haven't had a single hardware compatibility issue till date.
- morganvachon 6y agoNo, I expect you to buy a well built tool from a Linux-first manufacturer, where you pay a premium to get a device that "just works". This is, after all, the Apple way right? You pay a premium for a Mac because it "just works", right? https://linuxpreloaded.com/ https://linuxpreloaded.com/
- ghaff 6y agoDoesn't even need to be "Linux-first." Our standard Linux laptops at Red Hat are Thinkpads, many of which are used by people who are not particularly technical and use a locked-down corporate build. (Many others run Fedora or CentOS.) I'm sure we have many thousands in use. The Dell XPS 13 is supposedly good too although I don't have personal experience. I use Macs quite a bit but the idea that running Linux on a properly-selected modern laptop is likely to be an exercise in frustration is just a myth at this point.
- morganvachon 6y agoI was mostly being tongue-in-cheek, making a point that one doesn't have to buy a Mac to get a great software-hardware combination from a recognized manufacturer. But you are absolutely correct, and my Linux laptop is a Thinkpad X1 Carbon. It's also well supported under OpenBSD but for what I do with it (mostly media consumption and some light gaming mixed in with the usual laptop stuff), Linux works out better.
- rootsudo 6y agoDell XPS 13 is a solid choice, network card/wifi card may have to be changed out, but they support ubuntu natively. Cheap to buy used and generally very good.
- gonzo41 6y agoI've had a Thinkpad and Ubuntu for 5 years. The 'hardest' thing i've had to deal with is some flaky drivers with displaylink. I'm not at all putting crap on Displaylink. It's been fantastic, I just upgraded to 20.4 and hit a few small issues. Ubuntu's been really solid. Boring even. Which may not seem like a compliment, but I don't nerd out on OS stuff, I just want a computer that I can do stuff with when I need it. And I personally found previously with mac and windows my ability to 'just do work' wasn't there.
- croes 6y agoBut it should be your tool. Apple just grands you the right to use it like they think it's the best for you. That leads to this https://mobile.twitter.com/lapcatsoftware/status/1326990296412991489 https://mobile.twitter.com/lapcatsoftware/status/13269902964... How could it be that people are all about freedom when it comes to governments but have no problem if private companies censor and controll what they write and do?
- arvinsim 6y agoBecause they own shares
- ab8 6y agoLOL. Right
- zepto 6y agoBecause if governments get involved we’ll never be able to solve the problem. I.e. if you take away the rights to privately create and distribute software, the current situation will become permanent.
- croes 6y agoThat's not what I said. I didn't say the government should get involved. I asked why it's ok that that a private company controls and censors us.
- zepto 6y agoIt’s ok if you think it’s ok. If you don’t, you don’t have to use their products.
- RonanTheGrey 6y agoWe meet again zepto! Nobody wants to take away their right to do so (ok well maybe some do; I'm not one of them). Just that there should be rules we all agree to when we do. We accept this in other venues. Seatbelts. Stoplights. Nutrition labeling on packaging. etc.. No such rules exist for software, which is odd. It does seem to suggest the industry is ripe for regulation. It's always disappointing to me that we only accept limits when the law places them, as though ethics and morals are somehow not good things to pursue for their own reasons. Which goes back to OP's point: just because a company CAN be as dystopian as they can imagine, doesn't mean they should be.
- thinkingemote 6y agoWe expect you to be a hacker.
- wott 6y agoA touchpad is not really a proper tool for work (a laptop is hardly one anyway except in cases which require it), more of a handy last resort solution that comes included hence always available with the laptop.
- ajuc 6y agoIt's funny because almost nobody uses Apple where I live (Poland). The only people who use MacBooks are some "artsy" types and some managers (because they only need office and outlook to work :) ). Developers never use apple because it has tons of compatibility issues.
- ab8 6y agoIt is a luxury brand in the US. Every tech person that has made it would never buy anything but Apple. Yes, things like battery life are great. But if you are seen working at a coffee shop, there is a 100% guarantee of a that glowing apple logo on your laptop.
- zepto 6y agoCould it be that working at a coffee shop benefits from good battery life?
- ajuc 6y agoI know, I just can't understand it. With anything open-source apple ports are 3-rd grade after Linux and Windows. Sometimes even after *Bsd :) Good PC laptops are much better if you're using them like a developer would (move it twice a day, code on it for hours without moving). Thermal design is awful on apple laptops, they are basically running half-speed by design. Can't fix anything if it breaks. Why would people value brand over all these concerns is beyond me. Must be consumer patriotism, like with Harley-Davidson :)
- evercast 6y agoIs it really the case though? I am also from Poland (though I do not live there anymore) and based on my experience it was rather a popular dev machine a couple of years back, easily seen at conferences. It is of course less popular due to pricing but definitely not absent. Can you maybe also comment further on the compatibility issues? Mac is perfectly fine for any general-purpose frontend/backend development. Unless you work in a Windows-centric environment or in a setting that clearly rules out a Mac (e.g. Linux system programming), I cannot really imagine what compatibility issue would prevent you from using a Mac e.g. for Typescript, Java, Python or Go development. Not sure why Poland would be less friendly for developer Macs than the rest of the world.