4 ms·

> You go online with your private receipt number and it can validate your vote. What precisely do you mean by "validate" here? Would this scheme make the ballo

> You go online with your private receipt number and it can validate your vote. What precisely do you mean by "validate" here? Would this scheme make the ballot non-secret?

01100011 6y ago
If each ballot has a unique ID and there is no association between the person voting and the ID, then the voter can retain that number, possibly by tearing off a section of the ballot as is done in CA, and check that number online to verify their vote was tallied as expected.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- aw1621107 6y ago
  > there is no association between the person voting and the ID, then the voter can retain that number This seems somewhat contradictory. The voter retaining possession of the ID creates a link between the ballot and the voter, doesn't it? Then again, it does open the door to plausible deniability, though correctly pulling that off could introduce new complications and/or avenues of attack. > and check that number online to verify their vote was tallied as expected. "as expected" is the key phrase here. If it includes seeing what candidate(s) the voter voted for (i.e., trying to verify that the ballot was read correctly), then that seems like it would break the secret ballot. If it means just checking that the ballot was included in the count without revealing precisely what candidate(s)/issue(s) the vote was for, then that might work.
  - 01100011 6y ago
    > The voter retaining possession of the ID creates a link between the ballot and the voter, doesn't it? Yes, but it's only known to the voter. If they choose to dispute the results, then they give up that anonymity, but I think that's worth it. What other option do you have? As a voter, I should be able to verify that my vote was recorded correctly.
    - aw1621107 6y ago
      > Yes, but it's only known to the voter. One of the more common complaints I've seen with similar schemes is that it opens the door to vote selling and/or voter intimidation. > As a voter, I should be able to verify that my vote was recorded correctly. I agree that this can be a desirable property for a voting system to have. Unfortunately, it has to coexist with other desirable properties (e.g., a secret ballot), and at least from what I can tell it appears that some of those properties can be mutually exclusive [0, 1, 2 with 1 being the PDF of 0]. (Fair warning, the literature is well over my head for the most part, so I wouldn't be surprised if I misinterpreted something.) > What other option do you have? I honestly don't know, off the top of my head. Presumably there's continuing research into different voting systems, but in the end it'll come down to what combination of desirable properties and ease of implementation people will be willing to live with. [0]: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-12980-3_11 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-12980-3_... [1]: https://www.lsv.fr/Projects/anr-avote/PUBLIS/CFPST-08.pdf https://www.lsv.fr/Projects/anr-avote/PUBLIS/CFPST-08.pdf [2]: https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/40575 https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/40575
      - 01100011 6y ago
        What's wrong with selling your vote? Politicians get to do it. Why can't I do it? How does it open the door to voter intimidation? Someone steals my ballot receipt and checks who I voted for?
        aw1621107 6y ago
        > What's wrong with selling your vote? Depends on your point of view, I suppose. Some might argue that it distorts the democratic process, some others could argue that it's merely an extension of exchanging promises for votes. Unfortunately, this is not an area I'm very familiar with, so you'll probably have to look elsewhere for well-reasoned analyses. > Politicians get to do it. Why can't I do it? Someone else doing something wrong is rather poor justification for you being able to do something wrong. Of course, this is contingent upon you believing vote selling is wrong; if you think it is acceptable, then the unequal treatment can be something worth addressing. > How does it open the door to voter intimidation? Someone steals my ballot receipt and checks who I voted for? It basically boils down to someone with power over you sitting you down in front of a computer and asking you to prove who/what you voted for, with some kind of negative consequence if you refuse or picked the "wrong" candidate/issues. Stealing a ballot receipt in lieu of asking you to show the result yourself is another way to go about it.

> You go online with your private receipt number and it can validate your vote. What precisely do you mean by "validate" here? Would this scheme make the ballot non-secret?

01100011 6y ago

If each ballot has a unique ID and there is no association between the person voting and the ID, then the voter can retain that number, possibly by tearing off a section of the ballot as is done in CA, and check that number online to verify their vote was tallied as expected.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
aw1621107 6y ago
> there is no association between the person voting and the ID, then the voter can retain that number This seems somewhat contradictory. The voter retaining possession of the ID creates a link between the ballot and the voter, doesn't it? Then again, it does open the door to plausible deniability, though correctly pulling that off could introduce new complications and/or avenues of attack. > and check that number online to verify their vote was tallied as expected. "as expected" is the key phrase here. If it includes seeing what candidate(s) the voter voted for (i.e., trying to verify that the ballot was read correctly), then that seems like it would break the secret ballot. If it means just checking that the ballot was included in the count without revealing precisely what candidate(s)/issue(s) the vote was for, then that might work.
- 01100011 6y ago
  > The voter retaining possession of the ID creates a link between the ballot and the voter, doesn't it? Yes, but it's only known to the voter. If they choose to dispute the results, then they give up that anonymity, but I think that's worth it. What other option do you have? As a voter, I should be able to verify that my vote was recorded correctly.
  - aw1621107 6y ago
    > Yes, but it's only known to the voter. One of the more common complaints I've seen with similar schemes is that it opens the door to vote selling and/or voter intimidation. > As a voter, I should be able to verify that my vote was recorded correctly. I agree that this can be a desirable property for a voting system to have. Unfortunately, it has to coexist with other desirable properties (e.g., a secret ballot), and at least from what I can tell it appears that some of those properties can be mutually exclusive [0, 1, 2 with 1 being the PDF of 0]. (Fair warning, the literature is well over my head for the most part, so I wouldn't be surprised if I misinterpreted something.) > What other option do you have? I honestly don't know, off the top of my head. Presumably there's continuing research into different voting systems, but in the end it'll come down to what combination of desirable properties and ease of implementation people will be willing to live with. [0]: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-12980-3_11 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-12980-3_... [1]: https://www.lsv.fr/Projects/anr-avote/PUBLIS/CFPST-08.pdf https://www.lsv.fr/Projects/anr-avote/PUBLIS/CFPST-08.pdf [2]: https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/40575 https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/40575
    - 01100011 6y ago
      What's wrong with selling your vote? Politicians get to do it. Why can't I do it? How does it open the door to voter intimidation? Someone steals my ballot receipt and checks who I voted for?
      - aw1621107 6y ago
        > What's wrong with selling your vote? Depends on your point of view, I suppose. Some might argue that it distorts the democratic process, some others could argue that it's merely an extension of exchanging promises for votes. Unfortunately, this is not an area I'm very familiar with, so you'll probably have to look elsewhere for well-reasoned analyses. > Politicians get to do it. Why can't I do it? Someone else doing something wrong is rather poor justification for you being able to do something wrong. Of course, this is contingent upon you believing vote selling is wrong; if you think it is acceptable, then the unequal treatment can be something worth addressing. > How does it open the door to voter intimidation? Someone steals my ballot receipt and checks who I voted for? It basically boils down to someone with power over you sitting you down in front of a computer and asking you to prove who/what you voted for, with some kind of negative consequence if you refuse or picked the "wrong" candidate/issues. Stealing a ballot receipt in lieu of asking you to show the result yourself is another way to go about it.