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So, it's $4,200 in China, but the base price in the US is $17,499, before rebates. That's a pretty big difference; is it because of design changes required to
by elihu 6y ago
So, it's $4,200 in China, but the base price in the US is $17,499, before rebates. That's a pretty big difference; is it because of design changes required to be legal to drive in the U.S., or largely just shipping and tariffs?
On their website, they list the bigger K23's battery type as "Ternary lithium" whatever that means. They describe the K27 battery just as "lithium". I wonder what they actually use; is it lithium iron phosphate? Or "regular" NMC lithium-ion? It would be interesting if they use different batteries for the US version and that's a big part of the price difference.
- grecy 6y agoMost goods sold around the world aren't priced in relation to what it costs to make them, they're priced based on what a given market will pay for them. There's a reason it's cheaper to fly from Australia to NYC for a weekend to buy a MBP and fly back than it is to just buy one in Australia. Same reason the top of the line Johnny Walker Whatever label is 1/4 the price in South Africa.
- trinovantes 6y agoI wonder if there's any sites that makes these comparisons e.g. I specify my home country then it lists popular products I can cheaper from elsewhere including cost of travel
- randompwd 6y agoCustoms duty is a thing in most countries. You're only getting it for cheaper by breaking the law (gray area that it may be for some)
- strombofulous 6y agoI thought it was more expensive in Australia because they have really good consumer protection laws so Apple just includes AppleCare in the cost of all their laptops
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago> Most goods sold around the world aren't priced in relation to what it costs to make them, they're priced based on what a given market will pay for them. Is there some reason this isn't a large arbitrage opportunity? Why isn't Walmart buying Macbooks by the pallet in NYC to sell in Australia?
- gamblor956 6y agoYou have to pay customs duties when you import goods. Compliance with this is very high. Technically, when you buy a product out of state you are expected to pay use tax when you come home. Compliance with this is very low. So, for a business, there is no arbitrage opportunity.
- kube-system 6y agoWhat duties would Walmart be paying that Apple wouldn’t?
- mastax 6y agoBased on my extensive 5 minutes of googling... There are many methods used to evaluate the value of goods used to determine customs duties. There are rules around which methods you are allowed to use. Presumably Apple is able to pay duties on the cost they pay to Foxconn which is substantially lower than the retail price. If Walmart had to instead pay duties on their actual cost i.e. US retail, that would be substantially higher. It appears that some methods (Transaction Value Of Identical Goods, Transaction Value Of Similar Goods, Computed Method Of Valuation) could allow Walmart to pay lower duties than their cost of goods, but I'm not a customs attorney so I don't know if they are applicable.
- rebuilder 6y agoThey would pay the same duties, which is why there wouldn't be an arbitrage opportunity
- jee1shi 6y agoBecause we don't have Walmart in Australia :^)
- jay_kyburz 6y agoErr, I'd like to factcheck that. How much is the new Mac Book Pro 13 in the US? If I visit the US website it says its $1299 USD. In Australia it's about $1400 USD ex GST. You can't fly to the US for $100 USD
- londons_explore 6y agoI'm pretty sure when people make these comparisons they assume you'll illegally not declare the GST (tax)...
- rbanffy 6y agoWell... I just checked and a fully decked mini here in Ireland is about US$600 more expensive than in the US. Import tax evasion ignored, it's possible to visit the US for US$600. If you go for a top 16" MBP it'll be about US$3000.
- seltzered_ 6y agoWell as another example, it's generally more expensive to buy a new macbook in China than it is in the US, despite the fact that's where it's made.
- zinekeller 6y agoYou Australia example is invalid though (the Australian Consumer Law is a very strict law which leans heavily to consumers' rights and because of that most goods are priced higher relative to other markets).
- baq 6y agoi always thought everything being more expensive in australia (i'm most familiar with game licenses) is just tradition, i.e. nobody really knows why but they're buying anyway, so there's no incentive to actually lower prices.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- baybal2 6y ago> I wonder what they actually use; is it lithium iron phosphate? Very likely that the cheaper option is.
- sudosysgen 6y agoIsn't LiFePO4 quite a bit more expensive per kW?
- elihu 6y agoI'm actually not sure about that. I was under the impression they were supposed to be cheaper (no cobalt, easier to manufacture, etc..), but if as a regular person you try to buy some from a reputable American distributor of a respectable brand they're pretty expensive. I don't know if the price of, say, Calb cells from EVWest is anywhere close to what an auto manufacturer would pay for something equivalent, but they do seem awfully spendy on the retail market. Supposedly Tesla is going to use LiFePO4 in all their cars sold in China. It has less energy density, so I wouldn't expect them to do that unless it was actually cheaper. Or if they were somehow forced into it (e.g. government mandate to use locally-made or cobalt-free batteries, or inadequate supply of their regular 18650-cell batteries). (I recently bought about 450 pounds of LiFeP04 cells for an electric car conversion, and it's the most expensive part of the project. About $6,000 iirc. That was buying from a local guy who has a huge stash of them from a cancelled industrial power supply project, and they were cheaper than anything I could find online, with the possible exception of some shady-looking aliexpress vendors. Not having to deal with hazmat shipping was a big plus, too.)
- sudosysgen 6y agoHmm, last I checked on Alibaba LiFePO4 was a bit more expensive. Maybe they are using LiFePO4 for longevity and reliability despite less total capacity?
- newyankee 6y agoI hear goals of 100-150$/kwh (not retail) as being already reached by Tesla and Chinese automakers. However the cheapest retail LiFePO4 build for energy storage (done by individuals after importing the lifepo4 cells from China and assembling all the items) is barely touching 300$/kwh. I suspect there is a demand supply mismatch with demand far outstripping supply and not enough overproduction for retail discounts.
- bobthepanda 6y agoFWIW I believe China has laxer car safety regulations than the US. US NCAP seems to be more comprehensive than C-NCAP.
- kube-system 6y agoThe US government invented NCAP, and their crash structure standards in particular have always been the strictest in the world. Also, IIHS testing in the US further pushes up the structural standards for mainstream models due to testing at even higher speeds and with harder tests, even though it isn't a regulatory requirement. The original US NCAP tests from 1979 were performed at higher speeds than Euro NCAP today. (which is the standard most other NCAPs borrow their tests from) Euro NCAP does place some higher standards for pedestrian safety and active safety features, though. I don't think C-NCAP recognizes these, though.
- kjaftaedi 6y agoI imagine setting up an automotive company in the US is not inexpensive. There is a lot of regulation involved, and then on top of that you need to price warranty repair and things like that into the cost, or they would go bankrupt immediately.
- C1sc0cat 6y agoAnd Non Tarif Barrier's like the chicken tax
- CyberDildonics 6y agoI don't think any of that explains why something would be four times the price.
- bgee 6y agoThe $4,200 and $17,499 are different car models from different manufacturers. $4,200: WuLing Hong Guang Mini EV $17,499: Kandi K27