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Was there a reason CISA needed to release a statement? I haven't seen anything controversial in the news. As they say, if you have to say it... I have a few co

Was there a reason CISA needed to release a statement? I haven't seen anything controversial in the news. As they say, if you have to say it... I have a few comments going back a couple of years predicting how electronic voting will cause civil unrest because it is so vulnerable to being discredited. Edward Snowden even recently tweeted a prof's video about the same thing. Everybody who had given the issue any serious thought at all already knew it was an inevitable problem. Luckily, the U.S. has a process for dealing with contested election results, and the parties will litigate it to its final state. I'm just hoping for a very cold winter to keep people inside.

deleted 6y ago
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evan_ 6y ago
> Was there a reason CISA needed to release a statement? I haven't seen anything controversial in the news. You haven’t been paying attention, then. Trump has been screaming fraud for days. This statement is a direct response to a completely baseless, evidence-free claim he made earlier today that 2.7 million votes for him were destroyed.
untog 6y ago
> Was there a reason CISA needed to release a statement? I haven't seen anything controversial in the news. Perhaps not if you read reputable outlets but if you take a look on Facebook, Twitter (including the President’s account) and YouTube you’ll find a frenzy of conspiracy theories about voter fraud. None of it with any real evidence attached, but it’s spreading like wildfire in many social circles. Of course, this statement won’t really do anything. If you were the “Deep State” rigging an election this is exactly what you’d order CISA to say!
mapme 6y ago
It has been all over the news in the US of trump claiming voter fraud. Apnews fact check has been full of the debunked claims in the last few days. https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-joe-biden-donald-trump-technology-13c104367924b8192b4fcecf334f7806 https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-joe-b... https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-election-dead-voter-claims-fc7ba254fd37059f63ea764c18c2a4cb https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-election-dead-voter... https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-politics-media-1bf96bf3910bdcbe0f125958357c8f1a https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-tr... https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-us-news-media-michigan-43bdaa186e3b8d9d897cae3bd0c6cdc0 https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-us-news-m... https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-joe-biden-donald-trump-virus-outbreak-79c34b72633683af195ae945503883fe https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-joe-b...
- Jayschwa 6y ago
  Edit: I have removed the link because someone else found errors in it. Original: AP claims there's no evidence of "dead voters", but this list seems to indicate otherwise: [redacted] It's obituaries matched with returned absentee ballots. I've inspected a dozen or so entries and it seems legit.
  - TimTheTinker 6y ago
    Very interesting, thanks for that. I’m curious where you got a link to that. Looks like it’s from an account that was registered only yesterday... so there’s really no evidence (at least on the repo itself) that it’s “crowdsourced”.
  - MacsHeadroom 6y ago
    I'm not who you replied to. But I saw this get crowdsourced live on Twitter a few days ago. IIRC the original list was a pastebin with ~8000 identities and this list was the final result after testing each identity individually on a state of Michigan website.
  - timmaxw 6y ago
    These aren't dead voters, they're living voters who happen to have the same name and birth month/year as a dead person. As evidence: I spot-checked three random entries. In all three cases, I could find a Whitepages.com entry for a person with the same first & last name, in or near the zip code where the ballot was for; but the obituary was for a different city. Entry 962: The voter is registered in zip code 48602 (Saginaw, MI). Whitepages.com lists a resident of Saginaw, MI with the same name and age as the voter. But the obituary is for someone who lived in Eastpoint, MI, which is 100 miles away. Howmanyofme.com estimates there are 6,000 people in the United States with this same name. Entry 302: The voter is registered in zip code 48076 (Lanthrup Village, MI). Whitepages.com lists a resident of Southfield, MI (which is a city surrounding Lanthrup Village, MI) with the same name and age as the voter. But the obituary is for someone who lived in Detroit, MI, which is 17 miles away. Howmanyofme.com estimates there are 1,600 peple in the United States with this same name. Entry 707: The voter is registered in zip code 48162 (Monroe County, MI). Whitepages.com lists a resident of Carleton, MI (a city in Monroe County, MI) with the same name and age as the voter. But the obituary is for someone who lived in Novi, MI, which is 48 miles away. Whitepages.com also lists at least three other individuals in various parts of Michigan with the same name and age range. I've filed this as an issue on the Github repo: https://github.com/votesunshine/votesunshine.github.io/issues/1 https://github.com/votesunshine/votesunshine.github.io/issue... It's very irresponsible for you to be spreading these rumors. You should make it right by spreading the truth instead: go back to wherever you found out about this page, and let them know that it's actually just a case of different people with the same name.
jariel 6y ago
"I haven't seen anything controversial in the news" It's literally on every page of the news. The Trump campaign is trying to discredit the results of the election by any means possible. The issue of 'electronic voting' is only a concern were there to be an election among regular people, interested in determining the actual truth. It's much worse when people in positions of power just make up the truth 'because they can'. Whatever Trump says, evidence or not, maybe 20% of the US population will believe. If he Tweets it, it's 'true'. This is why we're really concerned about information propagation - now the vast majority of people will 'believe' what's on the news because it's the job of journos to determine the truth - we don't have time as individuals to hunt down every little irregularity. That's why integrity in the media system is really important. Social Media has no institutional integrity whatsoever - and there's absolutely no amount of 'evidence' that will convince certain people against what their 'Dear Leader' said. Any random person can start a meme, and that meme becomes 'truth'. 'The Stolen Election' meme is a populist ploy, not one based on any real evidence of systematic problems, it's a fabricated narrative. 'Both sides' are guilty of a lot of bad narrative-making but this one is particularly pernicious.
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  Don’t forget about the other 20% who will believe anything sourced from an anonymous intelligence official
  - jariel 6y ago
    You mean like Wikileaks? No, the 20% not 'believing' just the 'Anon. Official' - they are believing the information on the basis of verification by a journalistic institution with supposed credibility. 'Anonymous Sources' are a mainline source of journalistic information, and journos basically put their entire credibility on the line when they vet info and then communicate said information. The press didn't lie when representing 'anonymous officials' in 2016 rather, they communicated the information. Where the press did a 'bad job' was misrepresenting the nature of Russian-Trump relations, which basically were nill. The MSM seriously cast doubt on the legitimacy of Trump for a long time, frankly I think 'everyone actually believed it' and it was a surprise when it turns out Trump and his ragtag team were lying to the FBI for really no good reason at all and in fact had really no direct connections to Russia. Too clownish even to be actually corrupt, unless they actually were in some cases - as remember some major figures in Trump's campaign were eventually indicated. Trump's campaign manager, buddies, personal lawyer - all ended up in jail. That's not 'nothing'. Ironically, if Trump & Co. acted responsibly during the Mueller investigation - his pleas of 'Unfair!' might have actually worked, but he's such a liar that he only makes himself look guilty. But Trump's lies, in contrast to media spin, are a whole other level of falsity - he literally invents facts without any basis whatsoever. He's not 'spinning' the facts, he's literally inventing them. On election night when he said 'If they count the good votes, I win, the fake votes, they win' - this was probably the most dangerous statement he's ever made, he was verging on plunging the US into a garbage African Republic. At that moment it was clear that he had to go, he's a greater threat to the Republic than any foreign invader. He's willing to destroy democracy for his own power and vanity. His world view is literally: "If I win it's because I'm great, if they win, it's because they cheated" irrespective of any reality. Fox News, in the lat few days, has had to pull away from his statements quite a few times, it's shocking.
Thorrez 6y ago
6,000 Trump votes in Antrim County, Michigan were erroneously given to Biden for a period of time because a voting machine was configured incorrectly. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/11/election-security-when-worry-when-not-and-antrim-county-michigan-situation https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/11/election-security-when... Trump is advocating the idea that this is actually super super widespread and tons of his votes were given to Biden, not just temporarily, but permanently: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1326926226888544256 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/13269262268885442...

deleted 6y ago

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evan_ 6y ago

> Was there a reason CISA needed to release a statement? I haven't seen anything controversial in the news. You haven’t been paying attention, then. Trump has been screaming fraud for days. This statement is a direct response to a completely baseless, evidence-free claim he made earlier today that 2.7 million votes for him were destroyed.

untog 6y ago

> Was there a reason CISA needed to release a statement? I haven't seen anything controversial in the news. Perhaps not if you read reputable outlets but if you take a look on Facebook, Twitter (including the President’s account) and YouTube you’ll find a frenzy of conspiracy theories about voter fraud. None of it with any real evidence attached, but it’s spreading like wildfire in many social circles. Of course, this statement won’t really do anything. If you were the “Deep State” rigging an election this is exactly what you’d order CISA to say!

mapme 6y ago

It has been all over the news in the US of trump claiming voter fraud. Apnews fact check has been full of the debunked claims in the last few days. https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-joe-biden-donald-trump-technology-13c104367924b8192b4fcecf334f7806 https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-joe-b... https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-election-dead-voter-claims-fc7ba254fd37059f63ea764c18c2a4cb https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-election-dead-voter... https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-politics-media-1bf96bf3910bdcbe0f125958357c8f1a https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-tr... https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-us-news-media-michigan-43bdaa186e3b8d9d897cae3bd0c6cdc0 https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-us-news-m... https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-joe-biden-donald-trump-virus-outbreak-79c34b72633683af195ae945503883fe https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-joe-b...

Jayschwa 6y ago
Edit: I have removed the link because someone else found errors in it. Original: AP claims there's no evidence of "dead voters", but this list seems to indicate otherwise: [redacted] It's obituaries matched with returned absentee ballots. I've inspected a dozen or so entries and it seems legit.
- TimTheTinker 6y ago
  Very interesting, thanks for that. I’m curious where you got a link to that. Looks like it’s from an account that was registered only yesterday... so there’s really no evidence (at least on the repo itself) that it’s “crowdsourced”.
- MacsHeadroom 6y ago
  I'm not who you replied to. But I saw this get crowdsourced live on Twitter a few days ago. IIRC the original list was a pastebin with ~8000 identities and this list was the final result after testing each identity individually on a state of Michigan website.
- timmaxw 6y ago
  These aren't dead voters, they're living voters who happen to have the same name and birth month/year as a dead person. As evidence: I spot-checked three random entries. In all three cases, I could find a Whitepages.com entry for a person with the same first & last name, in or near the zip code where the ballot was for; but the obituary was for a different city. Entry 962: The voter is registered in zip code 48602 (Saginaw, MI). Whitepages.com lists a resident of Saginaw, MI with the same name and age as the voter. But the obituary is for someone who lived in Eastpoint, MI, which is 100 miles away. Howmanyofme.com estimates there are 6,000 people in the United States with this same name. Entry 302: The voter is registered in zip code 48076 (Lanthrup Village, MI). Whitepages.com lists a resident of Southfield, MI (which is a city surrounding Lanthrup Village, MI) with the same name and age as the voter. But the obituary is for someone who lived in Detroit, MI, which is 17 miles away. Howmanyofme.com estimates there are 1,600 peple in the United States with this same name. Entry 707: The voter is registered in zip code 48162 (Monroe County, MI). Whitepages.com lists a resident of Carleton, MI (a city in Monroe County, MI) with the same name and age as the voter. But the obituary is for someone who lived in Novi, MI, which is 48 miles away. Whitepages.com also lists at least three other individuals in various parts of Michigan with the same name and age range. I've filed this as an issue on the Github repo: https://github.com/votesunshine/votesunshine.github.io/issues/1 https://github.com/votesunshine/votesunshine.github.io/issue... It's very irresponsible for you to be spreading these rumors. You should make it right by spreading the truth instead: go back to wherever you found out about this page, and let them know that it's actually just a case of different people with the same name.

jariel 6y ago

"I haven't seen anything controversial in the news" It's literally on every page of the news. The Trump campaign is trying to discredit the results of the election by any means possible. The issue of 'electronic voting' is only a concern were there to be an election among regular people, interested in determining the actual truth. It's much worse when people in positions of power just make up the truth 'because they can'. Whatever Trump says, evidence or not, maybe 20% of the US population will believe. If he Tweets it, it's 'true'. This is why we're really concerned about information propagation - now the vast majority of people will 'believe' what's on the news because it's the job of journos to determine the truth - we don't have time as individuals to hunt down every little irregularity. That's why integrity in the media system is really important. Social Media has no institutional integrity whatsoever - and there's absolutely no amount of 'evidence' that will convince certain people against what their 'Dear Leader' said. Any random person can start a meme, and that meme becomes 'truth'. 'The Stolen Election' meme is a populist ploy, not one based on any real evidence of systematic problems, it's a fabricated narrative. 'Both sides' are guilty of a lot of bad narrative-making but this one is particularly pernicious.

jkhdigital 6y ago
Don’t forget about the other 20% who will believe anything sourced from an anonymous intelligence official
- jariel 6y ago
  You mean like Wikileaks? No, the 20% not 'believing' just the 'Anon. Official' - they are believing the information on the basis of verification by a journalistic institution with supposed credibility. 'Anonymous Sources' are a mainline source of journalistic information, and journos basically put their entire credibility on the line when they vet info and then communicate said information. The press didn't lie when representing 'anonymous officials' in 2016 rather, they communicated the information. Where the press did a 'bad job' was misrepresenting the nature of Russian-Trump relations, which basically were nill. The MSM seriously cast doubt on the legitimacy of Trump for a long time, frankly I think 'everyone actually believed it' and it was a surprise when it turns out Trump and his ragtag team were lying to the FBI for really no good reason at all and in fact had really no direct connections to Russia. Too clownish even to be actually corrupt, unless they actually were in some cases - as remember some major figures in Trump's campaign were eventually indicated. Trump's campaign manager, buddies, personal lawyer - all ended up in jail. That's not 'nothing'. Ironically, if Trump & Co. acted responsibly during the Mueller investigation - his pleas of 'Unfair!' might have actually worked, but he's such a liar that he only makes himself look guilty. But Trump's lies, in contrast to media spin, are a whole other level of falsity - he literally invents facts without any basis whatsoever. He's not 'spinning' the facts, he's literally inventing them. On election night when he said 'If they count the good votes, I win, the fake votes, they win' - this was probably the most dangerous statement he's ever made, he was verging on plunging the US into a garbage African Republic. At that moment it was clear that he had to go, he's a greater threat to the Republic than any foreign invader. He's willing to destroy democracy for his own power and vanity. His world view is literally: "If I win it's because I'm great, if they win, it's because they cheated" irrespective of any reality. Fox News, in the lat few days, has had to pull away from his statements quite a few times, it's shocking.

Thorrez 6y ago

6,000 Trump votes in Antrim County, Michigan were erroneously given to Biden for a period of time because a voting machine was configured incorrectly. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/11/election-security-when-worry-when-not-and-antrim-county-michigan-situation https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/11/election-security-when... Trump is advocating the idea that this is actually super super widespread and tons of his votes were given to Biden, not just temporarily, but permanently: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1326926226888544256 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/13269262268885442...