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> The HN crowd may seem fringe, but they are living in the future. The other thing that really can't be discounted here is that a lot of the HN crowd are likel

> The HN crowd may seem fringe, but they are living in the future. The other thing that really can't be discounted here is that a lot of the HN crowd are likely the default go-to people in their circle of family and friends for this sort of stuff, and in many cases they may also have major purchasing influence and technical decision making power in their respective businesses. Turning off one of them may be inconsequential on its own in the short term, but it could seriously add up to a lot more destroyed mindshare and significantly more "lost" sales over time.

peterburkimsher 6y ago
Yes, I can specifically say that 2 other people have chosen not to update past Mojave 10.14 because of my advice. I'm experimenting with Linux these days. There are some minor annoyances with using an outdated version of macOS. Unfortunately those apply to not just one or two apps, but every part of the OS when using Linux. Basic things like WiFi drivers or sleep support. I'm encouraged by the trackpad driver project, but it's not there yet. So I'm still hanging on to my 2014 Retina MacBook Pro using 10.13, until some Linux distro catches up. I feel like that will happen soon though.
- ant6n 6y ago
  I should update to Mojave one of these days...
  - peterburkimsher 6y ago
    Not if you want Time Machine; stay on HFS+ if you're a dev and want easier cross-platform support.
    - samtheprogram 6y ago
      One of my family members is using Time Machine and is on Catalina, which forces APFS -- is there something I should be worried about (outside of cross-platform support)?
      - peterburkimsher 6y ago
        Directory hard links are not available in APFS. Even though your internal drive is APFS, your Time Machine backup drive is probably still HFS+. https://eclecticlight.co/2020/05/26/how-to-make-time-machine-backups-to-an-apfs-disk/ https://eclecticlight.co/2020/05/26/how-to-make-time-machine...
mav3rick 6y ago
God the self importance of this community. The world can live without the 1000 people here.
- blub 6y ago
  Corps like Google or Apple are so big that the amount of HN customers and their friends/relatives are a drop in the ocean. This is just a PR mess for them, that's all. They mop it up and move on.
  - soft_dev_person 6y ago
    "Yet what is any ocean but a multitude of drops?"
  - emsy 6y ago
    Yep "Voting with your wallet" doesn't work, bad practices need regulation and/or penalties.
    - pgt 6y ago
      I don't believe that is true. Regulation prevents competitors from toppling badly-behaved incumbents. Big Co.'s must be allowed to fail. Don't hinder new contenders from rising to replace them.
  - pgt 6y ago
    You and I - we are the market. How do you know how many drops there are if you don't speak up? Relative to my community in South Africa, I have spent more money on Apple products than anyone I know. And here I am saying that if these privacy issues are not resolved, I am willing to vote with my wallet as soon as I can find an alternative. I only mention that I've de-Googled my life so that those who doubt my intent will know it's not an idle threat. These things take time to change, but they can and do change if you make your voice as a customer heard. When you want to enact change at a Big Co: 1.) Communicate why you are forced into a buying position and ideally how to resolve it. 2.) Be willing to walk away, or you can't negotiate. 3.) Actively seek alternatives.
pgt 6y ago
Don't underestimate the power of your choice at the frontier, even if it takes a while to reverberate through time. I used to think it didn't matter what tools I chose as a lone developer making consumer tech products and DSP audio applications. But over time, I saw that consumers rely on frontier-makers for fast-moving tech choices more than you’d think, even if they lag a few years behind. When enough people make a choice, a tipping point forms in the future. Paul Graham wrote about this in "The Return of the Mac", and I believe a tipping point is forming: http://www.paulgraham.com/mac.html http://www.paulgraham.com/mac.html If Apple wants to ride on privacy, then it will fall on privacy.

peterburkimsher 6y ago

Yes, I can specifically say that 2 other people have chosen not to update past Mojave 10.14 because of my advice. I'm experimenting with Linux these days. There are some minor annoyances with using an outdated version of macOS. Unfortunately those apply to not just one or two apps, but every part of the OS when using Linux. Basic things like WiFi drivers or sleep support. I'm encouraged by the trackpad driver project, but it's not there yet. So I'm still hanging on to my 2014 Retina MacBook Pro using 10.13, until some Linux distro catches up. I feel like that will happen soon though.

ant6n 6y ago
I should update to Mojave one of these days...
- peterburkimsher 6y ago
  Not if you want Time Machine; stay on HFS+ if you're a dev and want easier cross-platform support.
  - samtheprogram 6y ago
    One of my family members is using Time Machine and is on Catalina, which forces APFS -- is there something I should be worried about (outside of cross-platform support)?
    - peterburkimsher 6y ago
      Directory hard links are not available in APFS. Even though your internal drive is APFS, your Time Machine backup drive is probably still HFS+. https://eclecticlight.co/2020/05/26/how-to-make-time-machine-backups-to-an-apfs-disk/ https://eclecticlight.co/2020/05/26/how-to-make-time-machine...

mav3rick 6y ago

God the self importance of this community. The world can live without the 1000 people here.

blub 6y ago
Corps like Google or Apple are so big that the amount of HN customers and their friends/relatives are a drop in the ocean. This is just a PR mess for them, that's all. They mop it up and move on.
- soft_dev_person 6y ago
  "Yet what is any ocean but a multitude of drops?"
- emsy 6y ago
  Yep "Voting with your wallet" doesn't work, bad practices need regulation and/or penalties.
  - pgt 6y ago
    I don't believe that is true. Regulation prevents competitors from toppling badly-behaved incumbents. Big Co.'s must be allowed to fail. Don't hinder new contenders from rising to replace them.
- pgt 6y ago
  You and I - we are the market. How do you know how many drops there are if you don't speak up? Relative to my community in South Africa, I have spent more money on Apple products than anyone I know. And here I am saying that if these privacy issues are not resolved, I am willing to vote with my wallet as soon as I can find an alternative. I only mention that I've de-Googled my life so that those who doubt my intent will know it's not an idle threat. These things take time to change, but they can and do change if you make your voice as a customer heard. When you want to enact change at a Big Co: 1.) Communicate why you are forced into a buying position and ideally how to resolve it. 2.) Be willing to walk away, or you can't negotiate. 3.) Actively seek alternatives.

pgt 6y ago

Don't underestimate the power of your choice at the frontier, even if it takes a while to reverberate through time. I used to think it didn't matter what tools I chose as a lone developer making consumer tech products and DSP audio applications. But over time, I saw that consumers rely on frontier-makers for fast-moving tech choices more than you’d think, even if they lag a few years behind. When enough people make a choice, a tipping point forms in the future. Paul Graham wrote about this in "The Return of the Mac", and I believe a tipping point is forming: http://www.paulgraham.com/mac.html http://www.paulgraham.com/mac.html If Apple wants to ride on privacy, then it will fall on privacy.