8 ms·

Google has done everything it can to hamstring this launch. The software sucks. Buggy, Crashy, Beta quality. The emulator's performance is so bad it's unusab

by blocke 15y ago

Google has done everything it can to hamstring this launch. The software sucks. Buggy, Crashy, Beta quality. The emulator's performance is so bad it's unusable. The tablet section of the market is empty of real tablet apps. The Android Market can't even handle reorienting itself. The Android team doesn't seem to give a shit. Ask anyone who has tried to support Android is an Enterprise how bad the Exchange, VPN and 802.1x stacks have been since day one. Business as usual. Their public issue tracker is obviously intended as a space for frustrated users [1] to shout into a bottomless pit of who gives a shit. I used to be a major Android fan but screw this. If only WebOS was open source... [1] - Edited to substitute users for customers. Real users are not Google's customers. And the experience shows.

hinathan 15y ago
That's not Google doing 'everything it can to hamstring' — That's Motorola shipping a product based on an OS that's obviously not ready. Motorola's fault.
- cube13 15y ago
  I don't see how it's entirely Motorola's fault, honestly. At best, both parties are equally at fault. Google could have refused to release the source, forcing Motorola to go with Gingerbread instead of Honeycomb.
- blocke 15y ago
  "That's not Google doing 'everything it can to hamstring' — That's Motorola shipping a product based on an OS that's obviously not ready. Motorola's fault." Google controls Android 3.0 completely. They very intentionally did not make a source release. Google entered the relationship with Motorola and it damn well had control over who was going to ship a 3.0 device. They knew what they were doing. They HAD to beat the iPad 2 release date at all costs. So now all we have is a buggy as hell 3.0 OS with no source release and we're still waiting for them to fix stuff. I hope the early release to beat the iPad furthered some other business goal because it didn't further Android as a great Tablet OS. The flaws I've seen in the device are clear OS and Software issues. So unless your point of view is that it's up to other people to fix Google's fuckups... eh...
  - cmsj 15y ago
    The box says Motorola. That means they signed off shipping it. Even if any problems with it can be placed firmly at Google's door, it still says Motorola on the box. I think that was the previous commenter's point.
    - blocke 15y ago
      "The box says Motorola. That means they signed off shipping it. Even if any problems with it can be placed firmly at Google's door, it still says Motorola on the box. I think that was the previous commenter's point." Fair enough. Motorola definitely shares blame. But at the end of the day all that is Android ends at Google's feet. Why play games with holding back the 3.0 source if you don't at least feel you have some responsibility for how Android launches on tablets?
    - foobarbazetc 15y ago
      The box says Motorola AND Google. The device has both logos on the back, and they're the same size.
      - cmsj 15y ago
        did Google order manufacturing of the device? did Google order printing of the manuals and the box? did Google stack the boxed up devices onto palettes and ship them out to shops? Is it called the Google Xoom? No no no no. All of the above are Motorola, and more. It's a Motorola product which uses hardware and software components from probably dozens of suppliers. One of those suppliers is Google. They may have supplied a shitty component, but Motorola shipped the device instead of saying "this isn't ready, don't ship it". How are you actually arguing with this point? Is it just because this is the internet and fingertips are a renewable resource?
  - montagg 15y ago
    No, you're right. It's not Google's fault that someone at Motorola didn't have the balls to say, "This just isn't ready for prime time" and put it off until it really was done. But Google is still dragging its feet on making Android ready for tablets. They've had a year with an already successful model to look at. Building an OS isn't trivial, of course, but their commitment is clearly not behind producing great tablet software.
- npalli 15y ago
  Here is the installation document for Honeycomb. http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/optimizing-for-3.0.html http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/optimizing-for-... It clearly talks about using the Xoom for testing purposes. So, Google released Honeycomb as a finished product, used Xoom as the reference device and you are telling us that somehow Motorola shipped a product while google was looking the other way. The software is clearly a huge part of the problem (blocke mentioned some). Things which were working fine in Froyo/Gingerbread suddenly did not work on Honeycomb anymore - Flash not working until a month after release, the entire back/home/menu interface was broken. Market place not working, no apps optimized for tablet, no SD card support etc. etc. To their credit Google recognized they messed up and are exerting more control but there is no question they share a lot of the blame on the software side here. Motorola on the other hand messed up with pricing and the late introduction of the wifi only model but I suppose they felt confident after a good showing in CES and good reveiws.
- ChuckMcM 15y ago
  I'm guessing Motorola had the hardware ready, they've got an investment hanging over it which they need to recoup some of, and perhaps Google offered to cover some of their costs. Who knows. Motorola also got some good exposure and definitely some experience in channels that will be critical in the future.
  - daniel_solano 15y ago
    I don’t think that Motorola had the hardware, or the software, ready at all. That’s why the LTE upgrade will require mailing the tablet to Motorola and a one week turnaround time. Apparently, it’s a software issue, but the SD card doesn't work at all. However, this isn’t a Google issue, as other Honeycomb tablets have working SD card slots.
warfangle 15y ago
Not only that, but the Xoom is extremely expensive compared to iPad devices. And you don't even get access to WiFi unless you sign up for 3G/4G service. Two huge reasons for its downfall that have everything to do with Motorola and nothing to do with Android itself.
- npalli 15y ago
  There is a wifi only model but that was introduced towards the end of the quarter. Agreed on the extremely expensive wifi/3G model.
  - cmsj 15y ago
    Is it the case, as I have seen suggested elsewhere, that the wifi-only model has a slower CPU?
- orangecat 15y ago
  And you don't even get access to WiFi unless you sign up for 3G/4G service. Nope: http://gregisdumb.com/2011/02/24/verizon-motorola-xoom-no-longer-requires-data-package-to-unlock-wifi/ http://gregisdumb.com/2011/02/24/verizon-motorola-xoom-no-lo.... Not even Verizon could get away with screwing their customers that blatantly.
  - warfangle 15y ago
    Aha. I'd missed this the first time around. Thanks. Looks like they have the wifi-only version out now, for $600. Still pretty expensive. Might actually stop by best buy on my way home from work and check it out though.
- guelo 15y ago
  >extremely expensive compared to iPad devices They cost about the same.
bstar 15y ago
I've been having a ton of issues with Apple myself. I've had account issues where I keep getting denied access to many downloads in the dev center despite having paid the $99. Their support has been atrocious, it generally takes 2-3 weeks for a response. When I do get a response they ask for a screenshot despite the fact I've given them the error message verbatim, with error code. I had to buy x-code4 through the app store because this issue is going on 3 months- still waiting on a refund. This isn't meant to be an apple bashing post. I'm pissed about these issues, but I don't think it's because Apple doesn't care. I think it's because they are trying to cope with enormous amounts of support tickets and are probably having trouble hiring qualified people to address them. I'm guessing that Google is experiencing a similar problem x10. There's a market demand to get these products out asap, but the infrastructure just isn't ready yet.
ChuckMcM 15y ago
Interestingly one of the things that I found most amazing when I was working for Google was a nearly total inability to grasp the concept of 'deadline.' For so many years the company just shipped it by committing it to the release branch and having the code deploy over the course of a small number of weeks to the 'fleet'. Sure there were 'processes', like "Canary it in some cluster and watch the results for a few weeks before turning it loose on the world." but being completely vertically integrated is a unique sort of situation. Android is much like a more traditional vendor/customer model where they are at a place in the pipeline that has to co-ordinate with other things that are in the pipeline. Except when those 'other things' are hardware it gets really strange. I was present in meetings in which all the folks at the meeting would nod their heads at some release date which was totally and completely imaginary. It existed so that dereferencing the term 'release date' didn't return 'undefined' :-). I remember my first project there I asked SRE (part of operations) for a date when they would be done with their part. Got that date, operated my part of the project against it, the date arrived and nothing. Two days before the date I had re-confirmed it, and on the date was told, "Well its not quite ready, probably in a couple more weeks." Really? One of the reasons people do 'starter projects' there was to learn this lesson. The 'tablet' version of Android has been a planning disaster from the moment it was conceived as far as I can tell. Why isn't ChromeOS (basically Android kernel + browser UI) not the tablet version of Android? Android/Tablet vs Android/Phone? AFAICT its because Apple pulled off making iOS work between phones and tablets, and they only pulled that off because they had the iPod Touch for YEARS before they shipped the iPad and kept asking 'what is a non-phone experience like?' I have no inside knowledge of how the whole 3.x thing went down but if it was like other projects there, rather than get some clear thinkers together in a room and put together a plan and then manage against the risks of that plan, two or maybe three 2 or 3 person 'teams' (friends likely, in their 20% time) probably started working on their vision of how it might work as a tablet, only to be out maneuvered at a review (or not) to have several competing versions going forward which then someone checked in first and everyone else was stuck following that version until someone else checked in something better. Reasoning? Planning? Discussion amongst stakeholders? Probably not so much. So I would certainly place the underwhelming nature of Android tablets completely at Google's doorstep. Its not like the hardware is less capable than the iPads, in some cases its even more capable. Its not in Googles DNA (at the moment) to execute against a customer/supplier type of arrangement. Fortunately I think there are some really smart people at Google who understand that, I hope they can prevail against the inevitable corporate anti-bodies that are now doubt even now trying to marginalize them. I do believe that Android will win here but for the same reason that lava coming out of a volcano 'wins.'
j_s 15y ago
My favorite Android bug: "Android dev team ignores its own bugtracker" http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=7589 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=7589

by blocke 15y ago

hinathan 15y ago

That's not Google doing 'everything it can to hamstring' — That's Motorola shipping a product based on an OS that's obviously not ready. Motorola's fault.

cube13 15y ago
I don't see how it's entirely Motorola's fault, honestly. At best, both parties are equally at fault. Google could have refused to release the source, forcing Motorola to go with Gingerbread instead of Honeycomb.
blocke 15y ago
"That's not Google doing 'everything it can to hamstring' — That's Motorola shipping a product based on an OS that's obviously not ready. Motorola's fault." Google controls Android 3.0 completely. They very intentionally did not make a source release. Google entered the relationship with Motorola and it damn well had control over who was going to ship a 3.0 device. They knew what they were doing. They HAD to beat the iPad 2 release date at all costs. So now all we have is a buggy as hell 3.0 OS with no source release and we're still waiting for them to fix stuff. I hope the early release to beat the iPad furthered some other business goal because it didn't further Android as a great Tablet OS. The flaws I've seen in the device are clear OS and Software issues. So unless your point of view is that it's up to other people to fix Google's fuckups... eh...
- cmsj 15y ago
  The box says Motorola. That means they signed off shipping it. Even if any problems with it can be placed firmly at Google's door, it still says Motorola on the box. I think that was the previous commenter's point.
  - blocke 15y ago
    "The box says Motorola. That means they signed off shipping it. Even if any problems with it can be placed firmly at Google's door, it still says Motorola on the box. I think that was the previous commenter's point." Fair enough. Motorola definitely shares blame. But at the end of the day all that is Android ends at Google's feet. Why play games with holding back the 3.0 source if you don't at least feel you have some responsibility for how Android launches on tablets?
  - foobarbazetc 15y ago
    The box says Motorola AND Google. The device has both logos on the back, and they're the same size.
    - cmsj 15y ago
      did Google order manufacturing of the device? did Google order printing of the manuals and the box? did Google stack the boxed up devices onto palettes and ship them out to shops? Is it called the Google Xoom? No no no no. All of the above are Motorola, and more. It's a Motorola product which uses hardware and software components from probably dozens of suppliers. One of those suppliers is Google. They may have supplied a shitty component, but Motorola shipped the device instead of saying "this isn't ready, don't ship it". How are you actually arguing with this point? Is it just because this is the internet and fingertips are a renewable resource?
- montagg 15y ago
  No, you're right. It's not Google's fault that someone at Motorola didn't have the balls to say, "This just isn't ready for prime time" and put it off until it really was done. But Google is still dragging its feet on making Android ready for tablets. They've had a year with an already successful model to look at. Building an OS isn't trivial, of course, but their commitment is clearly not behind producing great tablet software.
npalli 15y ago
Here is the installation document for Honeycomb. http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/optimizing-for-3.0.html http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/optimizing-for-... It clearly talks about using the Xoom for testing purposes. So, Google released Honeycomb as a finished product, used Xoom as the reference device and you are telling us that somehow Motorola shipped a product while google was looking the other way. The software is clearly a huge part of the problem (blocke mentioned some). Things which were working fine in Froyo/Gingerbread suddenly did not work on Honeycomb anymore - Flash not working until a month after release, the entire back/home/menu interface was broken. Market place not working, no apps optimized for tablet, no SD card support etc. etc. To their credit Google recognized they messed up and are exerting more control but there is no question they share a lot of the blame on the software side here. Motorola on the other hand messed up with pricing and the late introduction of the wifi only model but I suppose they felt confident after a good showing in CES and good reveiws.
ChuckMcM 15y ago
I'm guessing Motorola had the hardware ready, they've got an investment hanging over it which they need to recoup some of, and perhaps Google offered to cover some of their costs. Who knows. Motorola also got some good exposure and definitely some experience in channels that will be critical in the future.
- daniel_solano 15y ago
  I don’t think that Motorola had the hardware, or the software, ready at all. That’s why the LTE upgrade will require mailing the tablet to Motorola and a one week turnaround time. Apparently, it’s a software issue, but the SD card doesn't work at all. However, this isn’t a Google issue, as other Honeycomb tablets have working SD card slots.

warfangle 15y ago

Not only that, but the Xoom is extremely expensive compared to iPad devices. And you don't even get access to WiFi unless you sign up for 3G/4G service. Two huge reasons for its downfall that have everything to do with Motorola and nothing to do with Android itself.

npalli 15y ago
There is a wifi only model but that was introduced towards the end of the quarter. Agreed on the extremely expensive wifi/3G model.
- cmsj 15y ago
  Is it the case, as I have seen suggested elsewhere, that the wifi-only model has a slower CPU?
orangecat 15y ago
And you don't even get access to WiFi unless you sign up for 3G/4G service. Nope: http://gregisdumb.com/2011/02/24/verizon-motorola-xoom-no-longer-requires-data-package-to-unlock-wifi/ http://gregisdumb.com/2011/02/24/verizon-motorola-xoom-no-lo.... Not even Verizon could get away with screwing their customers that blatantly.
- warfangle 15y ago
  Aha. I'd missed this the first time around. Thanks. Looks like they have the wifi-only version out now, for $600. Still pretty expensive. Might actually stop by best buy on my way home from work and check it out though.
guelo 15y ago
>extremely expensive compared to iPad devices They cost about the same.

bstar 15y ago

I've been having a ton of issues with Apple myself. I've had account issues where I keep getting denied access to many downloads in the dev center despite having paid the $99. Their support has been atrocious, it generally takes 2-3 weeks for a response. When I do get a response they ask for a screenshot despite the fact I've given them the error message verbatim, with error code. I had to buy x-code4 through the app store because this issue is going on 3 months- still waiting on a refund. This isn't meant to be an apple bashing post. I'm pissed about these issues, but I don't think it's because Apple doesn't care. I think it's because they are trying to cope with enormous amounts of support tickets and are probably having trouble hiring qualified people to address them. I'm guessing that Google is experiencing a similar problem x10. There's a market demand to get these products out asap, but the infrastructure just isn't ready yet.

ChuckMcM 15y ago

Interestingly one of the things that I found most amazing when I was working for Google was a nearly total inability to grasp the concept of 'deadline.' For so many years the company just shipped it by committing it to the release branch and having the code deploy over the course of a small number of weeks to the 'fleet'. Sure there were 'processes', like "Canary it in some cluster and watch the results for a few weeks before turning it loose on the world." but being completely vertically integrated is a unique sort of situation. Android is much like a more traditional vendor/customer model where they are at a place in the pipeline that has to co-ordinate with other things that are in the pipeline. Except when those 'other things' are hardware it gets really strange. I was present in meetings in which all the folks at the meeting would nod their heads at some release date which was totally and completely imaginary. It existed so that dereferencing the term 'release date' didn't return 'undefined' :-). I remember my first project there I asked SRE (part of operations) for a date when they would be done with their part. Got that date, operated my part of the project against it, the date arrived and nothing. Two days before the date I had re-confirmed it, and on the date was told, "Well its not quite ready, probably in a couple more weeks." Really? One of the reasons people do 'starter projects' there was to learn this lesson. The 'tablet' version of Android has been a planning disaster from the moment it was conceived as far as I can tell. Why isn't ChromeOS (basically Android kernel + browser UI) not the tablet version of Android? Android/Tablet vs Android/Phone? AFAICT its because Apple pulled off making iOS work between phones and tablets, and they only pulled that off because they had the iPod Touch for YEARS before they shipped the iPad and kept asking 'what is a non-phone experience like?' I have no inside knowledge of how the whole 3.x thing went down but if it was like other projects there, rather than get some clear thinkers together in a room and put together a plan and then manage against the risks of that plan, two or maybe three 2 or 3 person 'teams' (friends likely, in their 20% time) probably started working on their vision of how it might work as a tablet, only to be out maneuvered at a review (or not) to have several competing versions going forward which then someone checked in first and everyone else was stuck following that version until someone else checked in something better. Reasoning? Planning? Discussion amongst stakeholders? Probably not so much. So I would certainly place the underwhelming nature of Android tablets completely at Google's doorstep. Its not like the hardware is less capable than the iPads, in some cases its even more capable. Its not in Googles DNA (at the moment) to execute against a customer/supplier type of arrangement. Fortunately I think there are some really smart people at Google who understand that, I hope they can prevail against the inevitable corporate anti-bodies that are now doubt even now trying to marginalize them. I do believe that Android will win here but for the same reason that lava coming out of a volcano 'wins.'

j_s 15y ago

My favorite Android bug: "Android dev team ignores its own bugtracker" http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=7589 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=7589