7 ms·

Let's hope this doesn't affect the direction of the .net platform. There's been a lot of great change lately with more open source work, smaller and more freque

Let's hope this doesn't affect the direction of the .net platform. There's been a lot of great change lately with more open source work, smaller and more frequent revisions in platforms such as MVC. I'd hate to see it fall to the wayside.

jinushaun 15y ago
I concur. With 4.0, C# and the platform has really matured from its origins as a Java clone. All the work to add dynamic language support in the CLR has made C# very enjoyable to code in. The addition of ASP.NET MVC and Razor were both long overdue, and highlights Microsoft's awareness that it now competes more with Ruby and Python than Java. I hope the departure of the Gu doesn't slow down this progress or shift it in the wrong direction.
- TomOfTTB 15y ago
  I believe ScottGu was in charge of the .Net platform which is the CLR and and related technology. C# is run by Anders Hejlsberg. I don't know who Hejlsberg reports to but as a Technical Fellow I doubt it was ScottGu (with no disrespect intended)
  - aaronbrethorst 15y ago
    If memory serves, Anders used to report to the Product Unit Manager for C# (even as a TF). Although, I'm sure DevDiv has reorged several times in the past four years, and my recollection of the org chart is no longer accurate.
  - kevin_morrill 15y ago
    ScottGu is several levels above Hejlsberg, who was underneath him in the org.
- HelloBeautiful 15y ago
  >> With 4.0, C# and the platform has really matured from its origins as a Java clone So LINQ, proper generics, indexers, first class properties, delegates, events, using blocks, lambdas ... were cloned from Java?
  - johns 15y ago
    I think he was trying to say it's matured away from its origins (in a good way).
- icey 15y ago
  There hasn't been too much discussion about C# 5 has there? Async / Task<T> and compiler as a service (which is already available in Mono) are the only new features that I think I've heard about. Not that there won't be more stuff in there, nor do I think the radio silence on C# 5 is at all related to this... mostly I'm just curious if anyone has heard more about it :)
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- singular 15y ago
  In terms of the language stuff I think we're safe - Anders Hejlsberg [1] - is a great steward of the language and the C# team seems very interested in sensibly adding new components to the language, whether or not Gu is still around to involve himself with the ASP.NET side of things. [1]:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg
TomOfTTB 15y ago
I would assume it wouldn't. The key to this decision is the fact that Azure is clearly in trouble. Almost no one uses it including .Net developers (I have to assume Microsoft was counting on their support right off the bat). That's key because it tells you how ScottGu is viewed within Microsoft (you don't put a failure in charge of an important project that's already failing). Which in turn means the direction he's leaving behind on the .Net platform must be one the upper execs are happy with. So IMHO you won't see any dramatic shifts away from the current direction
- vyrotek 15y ago
  "Almost no one uses it including .Net developers" Sources? I know of 3 startups (mine included) which visit HN that are based on Azure. I am also familiar with many other larger companies which are using Azure. This seems to be the only sort of public exposure on companies using Azure. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsazure/evidence/ http://www.microsoft.com/windowsazure/evidence/ The perception that the platform isn't being used is usually because those companies don't care to advertise their infrastructures. They sort of have more important things to do than write a blog entry on how much they love Azure.
  - TomOfTTB 15y ago
    Well the article itself says... "As I blogged last week, Microsoft is seeking ways to boost sales of its Azure platform. One way the company is hoping to do this is by tightening up its developer story around Azure." While Azure was largely blamed for Ray Ozzie's departure (http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/IT-watch-blog/ray-ozzie-leaves-microsoft-another-victim-of-clippy http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/IT-watch-blog/ray-...) You can look at the anemic selection of Azure Books: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Azure&x=0&y=0 http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dap... (By comparison look at WPF books a technology most people believe will disappear into Silverlight in coming years: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Azure&x=0&y=0#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=WPF&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AWPF http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dap...) I'd also point to the number of views on the average Azure article on DotNetKicks: http://dotnetkicks.com/azure http://dotnetkicks.com/azure But to be honest I mostly based it on my own experience. I know many .Net developers and all of them have chosen to ignore the benefits of Azure and go with the more difficult task of implementing on EC2. Note I'm not saying Azure isn't a good choice. I'd even argue it's a better choice in many ways than services like EC2 (Scaling alone makes it worthwhile for .Net developers). I'm simply saying it hasn't been a success for Microsoft thus far.
Encosia 15y ago
Hopefully, there's not much to worry about when it comes to the people doing open source work and working on MVC. The ASP.NET team is moving with Scott. In fact, I'm hoping that being inside a business unit that more directly profits from ASP.NET might end up getting the ASP.NET team more resources (almost everyone is shocked to learn how small that team currently is).

jinushaun 15y ago

I concur. With 4.0, C# and the platform has really matured from its origins as a Java clone. All the work to add dynamic language support in the CLR has made C# very enjoyable to code in. The addition of ASP.NET MVC and Razor were both long overdue, and highlights Microsoft's awareness that it now competes more with Ruby and Python than Java. I hope the departure of the Gu doesn't slow down this progress or shift it in the wrong direction.

TomOfTTB 15y ago
I believe ScottGu was in charge of the .Net platform which is the CLR and and related technology. C# is run by Anders Hejlsberg. I don't know who Hejlsberg reports to but as a Technical Fellow I doubt it was ScottGu (with no disrespect intended)
- aaronbrethorst 15y ago
  If memory serves, Anders used to report to the Product Unit Manager for C# (even as a TF). Although, I'm sure DevDiv has reorged several times in the past four years, and my recollection of the org chart is no longer accurate.
- kevin_morrill 15y ago
  ScottGu is several levels above Hejlsberg, who was underneath him in the org.
HelloBeautiful 15y ago
>> With 4.0, C# and the platform has really matured from its origins as a Java clone So LINQ, proper generics, indexers, first class properties, delegates, events, using blocks, lambdas ... were cloned from Java?
- johns 15y ago
  I think he was trying to say it's matured away from its origins (in a good way).
icey 15y ago
There hasn't been too much discussion about C# 5 has there? Async / Task<T> and compiler as a service (which is already available in Mono) are the only new features that I think I've heard about. Not that there won't be more stuff in there, nor do I think the radio silence on C# 5 is at all related to this... mostly I'm just curious if anyone has heard more about it :)
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
singular 15y ago
In terms of the language stuff I think we're safe - Anders Hejlsberg [1] - is a great steward of the language and the C# team seems very interested in sensibly adding new components to the language, whether or not Gu is still around to involve himself with the ASP.NET side of things. [1]:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg

TomOfTTB 15y ago

I would assume it wouldn't. The key to this decision is the fact that Azure is clearly in trouble. Almost no one uses it including .Net developers (I have to assume Microsoft was counting on their support right off the bat). That's key because it tells you how ScottGu is viewed within Microsoft (you don't put a failure in charge of an important project that's already failing). Which in turn means the direction he's leaving behind on the .Net platform must be one the upper execs are happy with. So IMHO you won't see any dramatic shifts away from the current direction

vyrotek 15y ago
"Almost no one uses it including .Net developers" Sources? I know of 3 startups (mine included) which visit HN that are based on Azure. I am also familiar with many other larger companies which are using Azure. This seems to be the only sort of public exposure on companies using Azure. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsazure/evidence/ http://www.microsoft.com/windowsazure/evidence/ The perception that the platform isn't being used is usually because those companies don't care to advertise their infrastructures. They sort of have more important things to do than write a blog entry on how much they love Azure.
- TomOfTTB 15y ago
  Well the article itself says... "As I blogged last week, Microsoft is seeking ways to boost sales of its Azure platform. One way the company is hoping to do this is by tightening up its developer story around Azure." While Azure was largely blamed for Ray Ozzie's departure (http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/IT-watch-blog/ray-ozzie-leaves-microsoft-another-victim-of-clippy http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/IT-watch-blog/ray-...) You can look at the anemic selection of Azure Books: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Azure&x=0&y=0 http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dap... (By comparison look at WPF books a technology most people believe will disappear into Silverlight in coming years: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Azure&x=0&y=0#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=WPF&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AWPF http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dap...) I'd also point to the number of views on the average Azure article on DotNetKicks: http://dotnetkicks.com/azure http://dotnetkicks.com/azure But to be honest I mostly based it on my own experience. I know many .Net developers and all of them have chosen to ignore the benefits of Azure and go with the more difficult task of implementing on EC2. Note I'm not saying Azure isn't a good choice. I'd even argue it's a better choice in many ways than services like EC2 (Scaling alone makes it worthwhile for .Net developers). I'm simply saying it hasn't been a success for Microsoft thus far.

Encosia 15y ago

Hopefully, there's not much to worry about when it comes to the people doing open source work and working on MVC. The ASP.NET team is moving with Scott. In fact, I'm hoping that being inside a business unit that more directly profits from ASP.NET might end up getting the ASP.NET team more resources (almost everyone is shocked to learn how small that team currently is).