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The fact that a military academy was in the same town tells us pretty much nothing. Such institutions by their very nature are focused on external military thre

The fact that a military academy was in the same town tells us pretty much nothing. Such institutions by their very nature are focused on external military threats. Pakistan's military has long had an obsessive focus on its Indian counterpart. Cadets at West Point don't spend their free time canvassing the town looking for suspicious houses or people. Cadets at the academy in Abbottabad were probably a lot more focused on Indian strategic nuclear forces than they were on the goings-on in their own town. Now, that doesn't mean that some elements of the Pakistani government were not cooperating with OBL; it just means that talking about the presence of a military academy in the same town is silly.

srd11 15y ago
The military intelligence Pakistani ISI has a major presence there. PMA isn't just any military base. Its the military base. Its just not reasonable to think they didn't know what that giant compound down the road was.
- MichaelSalib 15y ago
  The ISI have a major presence at a military academy? Really? Do you have a cite for that? Maybe you should consider changing the title to talk about a military base with (apparently) many ISI staffers as opposed to a military academy.
  - srd11 15y ago
    Sure, let me grab the citation. You raise a valid point. If this were any minor base it wouldn't be such a big deal. PMA is where Pakistan trains its special ops and intelligence guys. Its their elite academy. The base is commonly called Kakul, and the main road leading to it is Kakul Rd. The purpose of this map is to show its literally a quick right off the main drive.
    - MichaelSalib 15y ago
      Ah, well, that makes a big difference. I've read people joking about it online by comparing it to West Point, but what you're describing sounds a lot more like Langley or Quantico.
      - srd11 15y ago
        Yep, somewhere in between. They bill it as their version of Sandhurst or West Point, but a large number of the instructors are current or former ISI. The military/intelligence distinction is a lot fuzzier in Pakistan than the US or Britain. I'm thinking of a report describing ISI recruitment at PMA Kakul. I'll track it down tomorrow when I get home. For now: Former ISI Head, current Chief of Army Staff visit last September: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lSEcu3TWM0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lSEcu3TWM0 The town is inside a cantonment, which is an area surrounded by checkpoints. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257330 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257330 Pakistan Army website: "Abbottabad, at 1220 meters (4000 feet) is named after James Abbott, a British Administrator, who served in Hazara Division, part of North West Frontier Province of present Pakistan, in the 1840’s and 50’s. It is known as the military town, full of soldiers exercising, parading, playing polo and practicing the bagpipes. " http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPReview/TextContent.aspx?pId=267&rnd=469 http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPReview/TextContent.aspx?pI... EDIT: Here's a pretty decent rundown. http://docstalk.blogspot.com/2011/05/indian-media-reports-on-osama-bin.html http://docstalk.blogspot.com/2011/05/indian-media-reports-on... ""A senior Pakistan military official has told India Today that it was impossible for the army to have not known that Al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was in Abbottabad. This has further fuelled speculation that Osama was killed in an ISI safehouse. Bin Laden was killed in the operation late on Sunday night at a mansion in Abbottabad, 80 kilometers north of Islamabad. "The cantonment [military camp] town houses many military institutions, including Pakistan's Military Academy at Kakul, where most of its military elite - including present [Pakistan Army] chief General [Ashfaq Pervez] Kayani - have passed through." (Indian source on Pakistan issue, so take it with a grain of salt)
edge17 15y ago
Why is this so shocking? I keep seeing people point out that he was near by a military academy. There's plenty of documented history of US and Russians spies in eachother's agencies. In fact, I have read stories about the area I grew up in (suburb of DC) with CIA safehouses, etc. It's fairly well documented that there are sympathizers within the Pakistani govt. It's all quite corrupt and the world views from that vantage point are quite different than the world views from the US.
- MichaelSalib 15y ago
  Why is this so shocking? Er, I never said anything was shocking.... There's plenty of documented history of US and Russians spies in eachother's agencies. I don't tend to think of West Point as equivalent to the CIA.... In fact, I have read stories about the area I grew up in (suburb of DC) with CIA safehouses, etc. Sure, and if the claim is 'OBL was hiding right under the noses of the ISI', I'd have no problem with it. What I disagree with is the notion that 'OBL was hiding right under the noses of the Pakistani equivalent of West Point'.
- srd11 15y ago
  "Why is this so shocking? I keep seeing people point out that he was near by a military academy. There's plenty of documented history of US and Russians spies in each other's agencies." Its odd because OBL wasn't a low level clandestine agent. It's like if we had found Saddam Hussein next to a military base in Jordan.
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srd11 15y ago

The military intelligence Pakistani ISI has a major presence there. PMA isn't just any military base. Its the military base. Its just not reasonable to think they didn't know what that giant compound down the road was.

MichaelSalib 15y ago
The ISI have a major presence at a military academy? Really? Do you have a cite for that? Maybe you should consider changing the title to talk about a military base with (apparently) many ISI staffers as opposed to a military academy.
- srd11 15y ago
  Sure, let me grab the citation. You raise a valid point. If this were any minor base it wouldn't be such a big deal. PMA is where Pakistan trains its special ops and intelligence guys. Its their elite academy. The base is commonly called Kakul, and the main road leading to it is Kakul Rd. The purpose of this map is to show its literally a quick right off the main drive.
  - MichaelSalib 15y ago
    Ah, well, that makes a big difference. I've read people joking about it online by comparing it to West Point, but what you're describing sounds a lot more like Langley or Quantico.
    - srd11 15y ago
      Yep, somewhere in between. They bill it as their version of Sandhurst or West Point, but a large number of the instructors are current or former ISI. The military/intelligence distinction is a lot fuzzier in Pakistan than the US or Britain. I'm thinking of a report describing ISI recruitment at PMA Kakul. I'll track it down tomorrow when I get home. For now: Former ISI Head, current Chief of Army Staff visit last September: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lSEcu3TWM0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lSEcu3TWM0 The town is inside a cantonment, which is an area surrounded by checkpoints. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257330 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257330 Pakistan Army website: "Abbottabad, at 1220 meters (4000 feet) is named after James Abbott, a British Administrator, who served in Hazara Division, part of North West Frontier Province of present Pakistan, in the 1840’s and 50’s. It is known as the military town, full of soldiers exercising, parading, playing polo and practicing the bagpipes. " http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPReview/TextContent.aspx?pId=267&rnd=469 http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPReview/TextContent.aspx?pI... EDIT: Here's a pretty decent rundown. http://docstalk.blogspot.com/2011/05/indian-media-reports-on-osama-bin.html http://docstalk.blogspot.com/2011/05/indian-media-reports-on... ""A senior Pakistan military official has told India Today that it was impossible for the army to have not known that Al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was in Abbottabad. This has further fuelled speculation that Osama was killed in an ISI safehouse. Bin Laden was killed in the operation late on Sunday night at a mansion in Abbottabad, 80 kilometers north of Islamabad. "The cantonment [military camp] town houses many military institutions, including Pakistan's Military Academy at Kakul, where most of its military elite - including present [Pakistan Army] chief General [Ashfaq Pervez] Kayani - have passed through." (Indian source on Pakistan issue, so take it with a grain of salt)

edge17 15y ago

Why is this so shocking? I keep seeing people point out that he was near by a military academy. There's plenty of documented history of US and Russians spies in eachother's agencies. In fact, I have read stories about the area I grew up in (suburb of DC) with CIA safehouses, etc. It's fairly well documented that there are sympathizers within the Pakistani govt. It's all quite corrupt and the world views from that vantage point are quite different than the world views from the US.

MichaelSalib 15y ago
Why is this so shocking? Er, I never said anything was shocking.... There's plenty of documented history of US and Russians spies in eachother's agencies. I don't tend to think of West Point as equivalent to the CIA.... In fact, I have read stories about the area I grew up in (suburb of DC) with CIA safehouses, etc. Sure, and if the claim is 'OBL was hiding right under the noses of the ISI', I'd have no problem with it. What I disagree with is the notion that 'OBL was hiding right under the noses of the Pakistani equivalent of West Point'.
srd11 15y ago
"Why is this so shocking? I keep seeing people point out that he was near by a military academy. There's plenty of documented history of US and Russians spies in each other's agencies." Its odd because OBL wasn't a low level clandestine agent. It's like if we had found Saddam Hussein next to a military base in Jordan.

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