5 ms·

> The amount of weird issues is about constant. But linux is free both as in free beer and in free speech, windows required you to pay the Microsoft tax to use

by barumi 6y ago

> The amount of weird issues is about constant. But linux is free both as in free beer and in free speech, windows required you to pay the Microsoft tax to use, and lastly macOS required you to pay a premium on hardware.

redisman 6y ago
True. Linux is the best value and the best developer experience IMHO - unless you need commercial software that is Win/Mac only. Even then you can virtualize which is safer too. I can also easily get a Darcula theme OS-wide for Gnome so..
mekster 6y ago
That freedom of Linux comes at a cost that people aren't paid to take care of the level of details other OS have. Paying $100 for Windows seems like a better solution if you just want a working OS without a hassle. And what premium do Mac hardwares have? It seems I paid what they deserved as I can't find anything better in the market. Even moreso now that M1 is out, it seems all Windows machines have premium.
- bbojan 6y ago
  If Windows is working for you "without a hassle", you must be using some version that us mortals can only dream of.
  - mekster 6y ago
    What hassle do you have these days? Yeah, I don't use peripherals as it's only a gaming machine (I don't see other reason to use Windows) but it's working as intended for years.
    - eMSF 6y ago
      Activation, for example. An activated and running Windows system can turn into a nagging SOB by something as simple as enabling a motherboard's Ethernet adapter in BIOS. A level of detail I value is that none of that BS is baked into systems I use. Doesn't matter whether those who did not do so were paid for it or not.
      - Semaphor 6y ago
        I didn’t even have to reactivate after changing my MB. I never had to reactivate an activated Windows 10 in general.
        mekster 6y ago
        I had a new mobo broken in 1 week and replaced it with the same model and it ended up license being invalid despite the mobo being the exact same model. I had to make a phone call since none of the methods Windows or the internet suggested worked and that phone literally took 30 min to reactivate my license again. That wasn't fun.
      - qazwse_ 6y ago
        Had this happen to me after installing a secondary SSD. Windows was deactivated, and wouldn't reactivate. I ended up having to use the Windows Restore tool before I could activate again. Having to reinstall all of your programs is never fun.
      - def_true_false 6y ago
        If only there was a way to get LTSC as a non-institutional customer and a way to activate it. (wink wink)
    - arvinsim 6y ago
      I also don't get about this complaint about Windows. I had as much problems with as my Macbook...which is almost always never.
- phkahler 6y ago
  >> That freedom of Linux comes at a cost that people aren't paid to take care of the level of details other OS have. >> Paying $100 for Windows seems like a better solution if you just want a working OS without a hassle. I've been running Fedora for 15 years and haven't had any of those pesky Linux issues for at least 8 of those years. Meanwhile, I was issued a new Windows laptop at work just last week and it Sucks pretty bad. It's smooth and polished, but with all the advertising and "first ones free" preinstalled shit it feels a lot like Facebook rather than a computer. I'm glad its me-at-work being monetized and not me at home...
- washadjeffmad 6y ago
  > working OS without a hassle I can't help but think you meant, "I've accepted there's no real way to salvage and diagnose my computer when it breaks so reformatting it has become second nature. I always keep an up to date Win10 install USB ready, and I even have a second hard drive that I keep all my files on." With Macs, you have to put up with MacOS and Apple (one big premium is lack of choice). It's also not that easy to self-administrate without MDM, and software options are relatively limited if you come from either Linux or Windows.
  - jmnicolas 6y ago
    Oh come on stop spreading the Windows 98 old stories. Windows 10 is a piece of crap spyware but it is stable.
    - qz2 6y ago
      They completely broke Alt-Tab in 20H2 so no, it's not.
      - jmnicolas 6y ago
        The unspoken rule didn't change because it's Windows 10: never install a fresh release of an OS right away (I'm still on 20H1). And judging by the comments I read here it's true for MacOS too. FWIW I switched from XP to Vista 1 or 1.5 year after its release date. It has been a great OS for me, I never had a problem with it (except that it's then they started with the bullshit telemetry). Of course YMMV, but since late Vista stability isn't a major issue anymore.
    - washadjeffmad 6y ago
      We have >8K active Win10 workstations on our domain. I wish you weren't wrong.
      - jmnicolas 6y ago
        I'm a software dev but since we're only 2 techies at work I also maintain about 40 Windows PC, 3 Hyper-V hypervisors (with something like half a dozen Windows server, the rest are Linuxes) and the printers. If Windows 10 was unstable I should be swamped. But I spend more than 90% of my time on software dev. And the machines are not new with fresh installs, I all migrated them manually from Windows 7.
- barumi 6y ago
  > That freedom of Linux comes at a cost that people aren't paid to take care of the level of details other OS have. What do you mean "take care of the level of detail"? I can download Debian right now, install it on hardware in about 10min, and get everything to work rock solid without any hitch. I can't say the same about either Windows 10 or macOS. In fact, I had mojave crash and reboot more times in the last month than Ubuntu 18.04 since it was released, and mojave is preinstalled in its own target hardware, which is supposed to be high-end, while Ubuntu is installed on a cheap laptop that cost between a third and a fourth of my apple laptop. What exactly do you mean by level of detail?
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    macOS I understand, but what machine do you have that Debian will work but Windows won’t?
  - mekster 6y ago
    Maybe the desktop environment itself is fine but for third party apps I don't see $10 range nifty apps that boost productivity on Linux. Half of the apps I use are on Linux as well but that won't get me to the productivity on macOS.
dheera 6y ago
> macOS required you to pay a premium on hardware Or just run macOS in a virtual machine
uCantCauseUCant 6y ago
It comes with the cost of a comp science student debt and manhours to poured into. It wouldn't be necessary if people standardized & automated the sharing of workflows and finding of problem solutions.

by barumi 6y ago

redisman 6y ago

True. Linux is the best value and the best developer experience IMHO - unless you need commercial software that is Win/Mac only. Even then you can virtualize which is safer too. I can also easily get a Darcula theme OS-wide for Gnome so..

mekster 6y ago

That freedom of Linux comes at a cost that people aren't paid to take care of the level of details other OS have. Paying $100 for Windows seems like a better solution if you just want a working OS without a hassle. And what premium do Mac hardwares have? It seems I paid what they deserved as I can't find anything better in the market. Even moreso now that M1 is out, it seems all Windows machines have premium.

bbojan 6y ago
If Windows is working for you "without a hassle", you must be using some version that us mortals can only dream of.
- mekster 6y ago
  What hassle do you have these days? Yeah, I don't use peripherals as it's only a gaming machine (I don't see other reason to use Windows) but it's working as intended for years.
  - eMSF 6y ago
    Activation, for example. An activated and running Windows system can turn into a nagging SOB by something as simple as enabling a motherboard's Ethernet adapter in BIOS. A level of detail I value is that none of that BS is baked into systems I use. Doesn't matter whether those who did not do so were paid for it or not.
    - Semaphor 6y ago
      I didn’t even have to reactivate after changing my MB. I never had to reactivate an activated Windows 10 in general.
      - mekster 6y ago
        I had a new mobo broken in 1 week and replaced it with the same model and it ended up license being invalid despite the mobo being the exact same model. I had to make a phone call since none of the methods Windows or the internet suggested worked and that phone literally took 30 min to reactivate my license again. That wasn't fun.
    - qazwse_ 6y ago
      Had this happen to me after installing a secondary SSD. Windows was deactivated, and wouldn't reactivate. I ended up having to use the Windows Restore tool before I could activate again. Having to reinstall all of your programs is never fun.
    - def_true_false 6y ago
      If only there was a way to get LTSC as a non-institutional customer and a way to activate it. (wink wink)
  - arvinsim 6y ago
    I also don't get about this complaint about Windows. I had as much problems with as my Macbook...which is almost always never.
phkahler 6y ago
>> That freedom of Linux comes at a cost that people aren't paid to take care of the level of details other OS have. >> Paying $100 for Windows seems like a better solution if you just want a working OS without a hassle. I've been running Fedora for 15 years and haven't had any of those pesky Linux issues for at least 8 of those years. Meanwhile, I was issued a new Windows laptop at work just last week and it Sucks pretty bad. It's smooth and polished, but with all the advertising and "first ones free" preinstalled shit it feels a lot like Facebook rather than a computer. I'm glad its me-at-work being monetized and not me at home...
washadjeffmad 6y ago
> working OS without a hassle I can't help but think you meant, "I've accepted there's no real way to salvage and diagnose my computer when it breaks so reformatting it has become second nature. I always keep an up to date Win10 install USB ready, and I even have a second hard drive that I keep all my files on." With Macs, you have to put up with MacOS and Apple (one big premium is lack of choice). It's also not that easy to self-administrate without MDM, and software options are relatively limited if you come from either Linux or Windows.
- jmnicolas 6y ago
  Oh come on stop spreading the Windows 98 old stories. Windows 10 is a piece of crap spyware but it is stable.
  - qz2 6y ago
    They completely broke Alt-Tab in 20H2 so no, it's not.
    - jmnicolas 6y ago
      The unspoken rule didn't change because it's Windows 10: never install a fresh release of an OS right away (I'm still on 20H1). And judging by the comments I read here it's true for MacOS too. FWIW I switched from XP to Vista 1 or 1.5 year after its release date. It has been a great OS for me, I never had a problem with it (except that it's then they started with the bullshit telemetry). Of course YMMV, but since late Vista stability isn't a major issue anymore.
  - washadjeffmad 6y ago
    We have >8K active Win10 workstations on our domain. I wish you weren't wrong.
    - jmnicolas 6y ago
      I'm a software dev but since we're only 2 techies at work I also maintain about 40 Windows PC, 3 Hyper-V hypervisors (with something like half a dozen Windows server, the rest are Linuxes) and the printers. If Windows 10 was unstable I should be swamped. But I spend more than 90% of my time on software dev. And the machines are not new with fresh installs, I all migrated them manually from Windows 7.
barumi 6y ago
> That freedom of Linux comes at a cost that people aren't paid to take care of the level of details other OS have. What do you mean "take care of the level of detail"? I can download Debian right now, install it on hardware in about 10min, and get everything to work rock solid without any hitch. I can't say the same about either Windows 10 or macOS. In fact, I had mojave crash and reboot more times in the last month than Ubuntu 18.04 since it was released, and mojave is preinstalled in its own target hardware, which is supposed to be high-end, while Ubuntu is installed on a cheap laptop that cost between a third and a fourth of my apple laptop. What exactly do you mean by level of detail?
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  macOS I understand, but what machine do you have that Debian will work but Windows won’t?
- mekster 6y ago
  Maybe the desktop environment itself is fine but for third party apps I don't see $10 range nifty apps that boost productivity on Linux. Half of the apps I use are on Linux as well but that won't get me to the productivity on macOS.

dheera 6y ago

> macOS required you to pay a premium on hardware Or just run macOS in a virtual machine

uCantCauseUCant 6y ago

It comes with the cost of a comp science student debt and manhours to poured into. It wouldn't be necessary if people standardized & automated the sharing of workflows and finding of problem solutions.