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Why is it scary that your computer checks for malware? It’s not like Apple us building a database of apps you’ve launched linked to your address and social sec

Why is it scary that your computer checks for malware? It’s not like Apple us building a database of apps you’ve launched linked to your address and social security number.

TameAntelope 6y ago
I don't know they're not doing that, is the problem. They probably aren't, but as Bill Kristol offered recently, 99% sure isn't 100% sure, and the fact that I'm not 100% sure is a problem unto itself.
mtnygard 6y ago
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious. Schrodinger's sarcasm.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Poe's law.
goatinaboat 6y ago
It’s not like Apple us building a database of apps you’ve launched linked to your address and social security number. Linked to your identity if you have a credit card saved for say iTunes.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Any proof of that audacious claim?
  - reificator 6y ago
    In the modern age isn't the audacious claim that they're not?
    - tshaddox 6y ago
      No. Apple has a history of being extremely careful with personal data, and almost always goes out of its way to make sure it never even collects anything personalized. Of course, those could all be lies, I suppose.
      - reificator 6y ago
        They run an ad network and are the entity that manages device identifiers for iOS. I certainly trust that they are better than Facebook or Google on the privacy axis. I don't blindly trust that they are innocent.
        rbrtl 6y ago
        To which ad network are you referring? They have a couple: https://searchads.apple.com https://searchads.apple.com, https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/adguide/apda0878bbd9/icloud https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/adguide/apda0878bbd9/i.... They cover ads in Apple News, the App Store Search ads and promotions, and there's the results of Siri search I suppose too. But all of these are internal Apple products and marketplaces. They are not running advertising auctions to any bidder on the basis of guaranteed user groups or targeting strategies. If you are in fact suggesting that they sell ads beyond their internal marketplaces I'd consider that motivation to move away from them myself, and I converted away from OSS when I got bored fixing my workstation more than my work.
    - valuearb 6y ago
      For an advertising supported business, sure. But not for Apple where advertising revenues a rounding error on a rounding error, and they’ve built their brand on their commitment to privacy.
      - 8note 6y ago
        Apple runs ads as far as I know. They also run the app store, which is an advertising platform
  - goatinaboat 6y ago
    Any proof of that audacious claim? Proof that if you are signed into any of their cloud services they know who you are? Is this a serious question?
    - sroussey 6y ago
      And that that service is using the malware detection data?
erdos4d 6y ago
> Why is it scary that your computer checks for malware? It isn't just checking for malware, its broadcasting your app opening behavior to apple and anyone else who might be listening. > It’s not like Apple us building a database of apps you’ve launched linked to your address and social security number. You know this how? Seriously, I don't get why you would believe that.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Because Apple would not benefit from doing so, I’m fact could be hugely damaged doing so. They don’t have any significant advertising business. They don’t need to collect any personally identifiable information. They’ve promoted their brand by putting their customers privacy first. So why would you believe they would intentionally risk all of that here?
  - nmlnn 6y ago
    Let me tell you a story about this frog and this scorpion..
    - ben509 6y ago
      For those not familiar with it, the fable is that the scorpion asks the frog to help it cross a river, it stings the frog, the frog asks why since they'll both drown, the scorpion says it's my nature to do so. A corporation's nature is determined by their business model. If you want to apply that fable to, say, Apple's relationship with independent repair shops, I'd 100% agree. > They don’t have any significant advertising business. This refutes that they're the scorpion in this relationship.
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    What if a 3 letter agency told them so? (Since apparently it is entirely impossible for people to even conceive that apple might be doing it for their own benefit)
  - sergeykish 6y ago
    Only if catched. You've claimed Linux does similar checks. Linux is not a company, it is community. They don't need to collect PI, they don't play PR. Why would private company not utilize leverage? You have no source, you can't even turn off these checks without hacks. Privacy first is open source and audit. It is removing feature people don't want.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
It's only a matter of time and money: https://www.google.com/amp/s/mashable.com/article/apple-search.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/mashable.com/article/apple-sear...
greycol 6y ago
Well it would be pretty good information to have to do analysis against. You could easily see knowing how often an app is used on an OS to be useful business information if apple wanted to create software to get into a trend before it gets to big. Of course that doesn't require fine grained time data just daily would be more than good enough. However you could also see the business use of knowing if two pieces of software are often used together or sequentialy which could inform creating an all in one/integrated experience that would do well in a market. So you need that finer application timing. Of course that doesn't require tying it to a particular user account,not even a device ID, just a sessionID that changes each time the device restarts would probably be granular enough. However since we've got that other stuff in place per device wouldn't it be great to see if there's a correlation between people using an app on there Mac and using it or another App on there iphone, ipad, or watch. What piece of data can we include to match up a user across all their devices? Maybe some kind of obfuscated or derived userID. Of course you'd hope that other interests such as a commitment to privacy would rule out the use of such a dataset. If Apple did have such a dataset then you'd hope they'd be doing whatever processes (social, business, and technical) it can to obfuscate and seperate how that dataset is tied to a specific user. The only real argument against Apple not having it is the balance between the cost of creating/exploiting such a data set, the expected profit, and the legal and reputational costs of such behaviour.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Why is it scary that your computer checks for malware? It’s not like Apple us building a database of apps you’ve launched linked to your address and social security number.

TameAntelope 6y ago

I don't know they're not doing that, is the problem. They probably aren't, but as Bill Kristol offered recently, 99% sure isn't 100% sure, and the fact that I'm not 100% sure is a problem unto itself.

mtnygard 6y ago

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious. Schrodinger's sarcasm.

saagarjha 6y ago
Poe's law.

goatinaboat 6y ago

It’s not like Apple us building a database of apps you’ve launched linked to your address and social security number. Linked to your identity if you have a credit card saved for say iTunes.

valuearb 6y ago
Any proof of that audacious claim?
- reificator 6y ago
  In the modern age isn't the audacious claim that they're not?
  - tshaddox 6y ago
    No. Apple has a history of being extremely careful with personal data, and almost always goes out of its way to make sure it never even collects anything personalized. Of course, those could all be lies, I suppose.
    - reificator 6y ago
      They run an ad network and are the entity that manages device identifiers for iOS. I certainly trust that they are better than Facebook or Google on the privacy axis. I don't blindly trust that they are innocent.
      - rbrtl 6y ago
        To which ad network are you referring? They have a couple: https://searchads.apple.com https://searchads.apple.com, https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/adguide/apda0878bbd9/icloud https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/adguide/apda0878bbd9/i.... They cover ads in Apple News, the App Store Search ads and promotions, and there's the results of Siri search I suppose too. But all of these are internal Apple products and marketplaces. They are not running advertising auctions to any bidder on the basis of guaranteed user groups or targeting strategies. If you are in fact suggesting that they sell ads beyond their internal marketplaces I'd consider that motivation to move away from them myself, and I converted away from OSS when I got bored fixing my workstation more than my work.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    For an advertising supported business, sure. But not for Apple where advertising revenues a rounding error on a rounding error, and they’ve built their brand on their commitment to privacy.
    - 8note 6y ago
      Apple runs ads as far as I know. They also run the app store, which is an advertising platform
- goatinaboat 6y ago
  Any proof of that audacious claim? Proof that if you are signed into any of their cloud services they know who you are? Is this a serious question?
  - sroussey 6y ago
    And that that service is using the malware detection data?

erdos4d 6y ago

> Why is it scary that your computer checks for malware? It isn't just checking for malware, its broadcasting your app opening behavior to apple and anyone else who might be listening. > It’s not like Apple us building a database of apps you’ve launched linked to your address and social security number. You know this how? Seriously, I don't get why you would believe that.

valuearb 6y ago
Because Apple would not benefit from doing so, I’m fact could be hugely damaged doing so. They don’t have any significant advertising business. They don’t need to collect any personally identifiable information. They’ve promoted their brand by putting their customers privacy first. So why would you believe they would intentionally risk all of that here?
- nmlnn 6y ago
  Let me tell you a story about this frog and this scorpion..
  - ben509 6y ago
    For those not familiar with it, the fable is that the scorpion asks the frog to help it cross a river, it stings the frog, the frog asks why since they'll both drown, the scorpion says it's my nature to do so. A corporation's nature is determined by their business model. If you want to apply that fable to, say, Apple's relationship with independent repair shops, I'd 100% agree. > They don’t have any significant advertising business. This refutes that they're the scorpion in this relationship.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  What if a 3 letter agency told them so? (Since apparently it is entirely impossible for people to even conceive that apple might be doing it for their own benefit)
- sergeykish 6y ago
  Only if catched. You've claimed Linux does similar checks. Linux is not a company, it is community. They don't need to collect PI, they don't play PR. Why would private company not utilize leverage? You have no source, you can't even turn off these checks without hacks. Privacy first is open source and audit. It is removing feature people don't want.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

thesuperbigfrog 6y ago

It's only a matter of time and money: https://www.google.com/amp/s/mashable.com/article/apple-search.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/mashable.com/article/apple-sear...

greycol 6y ago

Well it would be pretty good information to have to do analysis against. You could easily see knowing how often an app is used on an OS to be useful business information if apple wanted to create software to get into a trend before it gets to big. Of course that doesn't require fine grained time data just daily would be more than good enough. However you could also see the business use of knowing if two pieces of software are often used together or sequentialy which could inform creating an all in one/integrated experience that would do well in a market. So you need that finer application timing. Of course that doesn't require tying it to a particular user account,not even a device ID, just a sessionID that changes each time the device restarts would probably be granular enough. However since we've got that other stuff in place per device wouldn't it be great to see if there's a correlation between people using an app on there Mac and using it or another App on there iphone, ipad, or watch. What piece of data can we include to match up a user across all their devices? Maybe some kind of obfuscated or derived userID. Of course you'd hope that other interests such as a commitment to privacy would rule out the use of such a dataset. If Apple did have such a dataset then you'd hope they'd be doing whatever processes (social, business, and technical) it can to obfuscate and seperate how that dataset is tied to a specific user. The only real argument against Apple not having it is the balance between the cost of creating/exploiting such a data set, the expected profit, and the legal and reputational costs of such behaviour.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]