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I tell everyone who will listen that the people you work with are more important than the business space. One of my happiest jobs was writing software to proce

by deeg 6y ago

I tell everyone who will listen that the people you work with are more important than the business space. One of my happiest jobs was writing software to process insurance claims. My most miserable job was working on interesting mathematical models for a web company that was disrupting the industry. I love writing code so I don't need to be motivated by the end product. That might make me different from others.

filoleg 6y ago
>I love writing code so I don't need to be motivated by the end product. That might make me different from others. Imo that just makes you more self-aware regarding what makes you motivated/excited, not necessarily that it is just a minority of engineers who are the same way. It's just that most people don't really understand/realize what actually makes them tick. After graduating college with not much experience, I thought that the shiniest/coolest projects were what made me happy/motivated/excited. After a year or two of working full time, I can decisively say that I was looking at the wrong thing, and a great manager and teammates make all the difference for me these days. The project being shiny is just a cherry on top, but it cannot override a terrible manager or teammates. But a great manager+teammates override shininess of the project every single time by a giant margin. I initially started working on a pretty non-shiny-sounding enterprise project, and I was upset once i found out i was assigned to work on it. But after just a month or two, I wouldn't have chosen it any other way. The overall experience was amazing, and it opened so many doors for me. I ended up following the people, not the projects, and after a couple of team switches, that approach has never let me down so far. Those people I observed following solely shiny projects ended up either being miserable due to the management or due to random mishaps with projects. Those who followed great managers and teammates ended up in a great position, no matter the projects. If those projects went a bit off-rails, great management always managed to pivot it back in a good direction without inconveniencing the engineers. And then it kinda hit me that this trade-off just mirrors the whole systems vs. raw results argument. Sure, you might have a currently good looking project, but if it doesn't have a great team+manager behind it, it is just a single datapoint, and it can vanish any moment due to a random mishap. A great manager+team are like a good system. No matter the mishaps, the system can course-correct, and you will never end up screwed over or unsatisfied. It's like, you should not stress about building a perfect product that never fails, you should strive to build a fault-tolerant product that has effective and tested fallback systems in place.
BeetleB 6y ago
Similar experience. The most boring job I had was also the one I was most happy with. The domain was simple business logic with very low complexity (simple functions, mostly if-else logic - some challenges in testing, though). I've had two highly technical engineering/math jobs, and while I loved the topic, I hated the job. Poor management, dysfunctional teams, rigid coworkers, etc. The last time I did a job hunt I explicitly did not make the problem domain a factor in the decision process. It does make answering the "Why are you excited about working on this project?" a bit tougher, though. Of course, let's not get into false dichotomies. Because a job doesn't sound interesting doesn't mean you'll enjoy it!
- KSteffensen 6y ago
  > Why are you excited about working on this project? Because you are paying me to do it. Obviously! The one true answer to this BS question is the one you are not allowed to give.
Tiktaalik 6y ago
Absolutely it's the people that are the most important. One of the best jobs I ever had was early in my career during a bit of a bubble period where there was such a scarcity of workers that the company was desperate enough to fill the roles with misfit weirdos (coincidentally why I was hired). It was amazing fun. In total contrast years later I worked for Electronic Arts and its highly corporate vibe and dull atmosphere lead me to bail as soon as my short contract was up.

by deeg 6y ago

filoleg 6y ago

>I love writing code so I don't need to be motivated by the end product. That might make me different from others. Imo that just makes you more self-aware regarding what makes you motivated/excited, not necessarily that it is just a minority of engineers who are the same way. It's just that most people don't really understand/realize what actually makes them tick. After graduating college with not much experience, I thought that the shiniest/coolest projects were what made me happy/motivated/excited. After a year or two of working full time, I can decisively say that I was looking at the wrong thing, and a great manager and teammates make all the difference for me these days. The project being shiny is just a cherry on top, but it cannot override a terrible manager or teammates. But a great manager+teammates override shininess of the project every single time by a giant margin. I initially started working on a pretty non-shiny-sounding enterprise project, and I was upset once i found out i was assigned to work on it. But after just a month or two, I wouldn't have chosen it any other way. The overall experience was amazing, and it opened so many doors for me. I ended up following the people, not the projects, and after a couple of team switches, that approach has never let me down so far. Those people I observed following solely shiny projects ended up either being miserable due to the management or due to random mishaps with projects. Those who followed great managers and teammates ended up in a great position, no matter the projects. If those projects went a bit off-rails, great management always managed to pivot it back in a good direction without inconveniencing the engineers. And then it kinda hit me that this trade-off just mirrors the whole systems vs. raw results argument. Sure, you might have a currently good looking project, but if it doesn't have a great team+manager behind it, it is just a single datapoint, and it can vanish any moment due to a random mishap. A great manager+team are like a good system. No matter the mishaps, the system can course-correct, and you will never end up screwed over or unsatisfied. It's like, you should not stress about building a perfect product that never fails, you should strive to build a fault-tolerant product that has effective and tested fallback systems in place.

BeetleB 6y ago

Similar experience. The most boring job I had was also the one I was most happy with. The domain was simple business logic with very low complexity (simple functions, mostly if-else logic - some challenges in testing, though). I've had two highly technical engineering/math jobs, and while I loved the topic, I hated the job. Poor management, dysfunctional teams, rigid coworkers, etc. The last time I did a job hunt I explicitly did not make the problem domain a factor in the decision process. It does make answering the "Why are you excited about working on this project?" a bit tougher, though. Of course, let's not get into false dichotomies. Because a job doesn't sound interesting doesn't mean you'll enjoy it!

KSteffensen 6y ago
> Why are you excited about working on this project? Because you are paying me to do it. Obviously! The one true answer to this BS question is the one you are not allowed to give.

Tiktaalik 6y ago

Absolutely it's the people that are the most important. One of the best jobs I ever had was early in my career during a bit of a bubble period where there was such a scarcity of workers that the company was desperate enough to fill the roles with misfit weirdos (coincidentally why I was hired). It was amazing fun. In total contrast years later I worked for Electronic Arts and its highly corporate vibe and dull atmosphere lead me to bail as soon as my short contract was up.