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Literally any other explanation would suffice! For example, the lockdowns put stress on Americans, exacerbate depression and anxiety, worsen health conditions a

Literally any other explanation would suffice! For example, the lockdowns put stress on Americans, exacerbate depression and anxiety, worsen health conditions associated with sedentary lifestyles, and keep people out of healthful bars and restaurants where they could consume a more diverse diet and nourish their psychological need for social interaction.

hef19898 6y ago
It would. But than you have the official COVID deaths which match the excess deaths quite neatly. So why not just accept what numbers are clearly telling us?
- josephcsible 6y ago
  You're missing the point. The point is that some of the excess deaths were caused by Covid, and the rest were caused by the lockdown, and the numbers are intentionally being skewed to make all of the lockdown deaths look like Covid deaths. This obviously leaves the total of excess deaths the same.
  - oblio 6y ago
    How do you explain excess deaths not during periods of lockdown? Also not in the US where Covid-19 is for some reason a political talking point? :-)
    - josephcsible 6y ago
      What state/region and specific timeframe do you have in mind? Weren't lockdowns instituted in most places before recorded deaths got really high?
      - oblio 6y ago
        The Covid-19 paradox, "lockdowns were instituted in most places before recorded deaths got really high". I'd assume that those deaths couldn't have been lockdown deaths since, you know, no lockdown yet. But after lockdowns were instituted, deaths levels became stable or decreased, despite your claim that the lockdown deaths were the actual cause of the catastrophe. Schroedinger's Covid-19 :-)
        josephcsible 6y ago
        > I'd assume that those deaths couldn't have been lockdown deaths since, you know, no lockdown yet. I'm confused. Lockdown happened first, and the plateau of deaths happened second.
        oblio 6y ago
        You're starting to get it. People were dying, in increasing numbers, before lockdowns. During lockdowns, the numbers of deaths went down. So how could anyone, in good faith, argue that lockdown death numbers are somehow similar to Covid-19 death numbers?
        legerdemain 6y ago
        Please, no snide condescension. I haven't seen anyone here, and certainly not josephcbible, make absurdly absolute claims that Covid hasn't killed _anyone_. I'm sure Covid has been a factor in the deaths of many people. Deaths, as reported, peaked in the spring. Epidemiologists have a name for an entirely mainstream explanation of what happened. They call it a "harvesting effect." I agree that the name is unsavory. It refers to a disease quickly culling the weak in a population. The majority of the excess mortality has accumulated since spring, _after_ the country went into forced lockdown. There is no reason to default to the belief, as you seem to be doing, that Covid has continued killing masses and masses of people. Certainly not compared to the much more salient explanatory force of the massive, nationwide lockdowns.
        oblio 6y ago
irrational 6y ago
> healthful bars ???
- legerdemain 6y ago
  Bars play a crucial role in Americans' public health.
- lolc 6y ago
  Socializing is healthful to humans. Consuming alcohol is hurting. Now if we'd go so far as to assume that people consume the same amount of alcohol at home, then staying home is a net negative for health. I don't actually know how alcohol consumption developed during lockdown, so I don't know whether there is any merit to that line of argument. But I see how it can be made.
jfim 6y ago
> keep people out of healthful bars and restaurants where they could consume a more diverse diet The portion sizes [0] and food served in bars and restaurants in the US are not healthy. Generally, home cooking is associated with consuming fewer calories and improve certain health outcomes [1]. [0] https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/03/29/portion-sizes https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/03/29/portion-sizes [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/home-cooking-good-for-your-health-2018081514449 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/home-cooking-good-for-yo...
Viliam1234 6y ago
> keep people out of healthful bars and restaurants If it turns out that what people cook at home is even less healthy than food in restaurants, that is a horrible thing, and we should definitely start teaching cooking at schools, regardless of Covid. I mean, restaurants have all the incentives to cook food that is tastier or cheaper at the expense of health. Simply using less sugar and salt at home, and adding some fresh vegetables to each meal, should already result in healthier diet even if you are a beginner at cooking. But yeah, I can imagine that many people are below the level of beginner.

hef19898 6y ago

It would. But than you have the official COVID deaths which match the excess deaths quite neatly. So why not just accept what numbers are clearly telling us?

josephcsible 6y ago
You're missing the point. The point is that some of the excess deaths were caused by Covid, and the rest were caused by the lockdown, and the numbers are intentionally being skewed to make all of the lockdown deaths look like Covid deaths. This obviously leaves the total of excess deaths the same.
- oblio 6y ago
  How do you explain excess deaths not during periods of lockdown? Also not in the US where Covid-19 is for some reason a political talking point? :-)
  - josephcsible 6y ago
    What state/region and specific timeframe do you have in mind? Weren't lockdowns instituted in most places before recorded deaths got really high?
    - oblio 6y ago
      The Covid-19 paradox, "lockdowns were instituted in most places before recorded deaths got really high". I'd assume that those deaths couldn't have been lockdown deaths since, you know, no lockdown yet. But after lockdowns were instituted, deaths levels became stable or decreased, despite your claim that the lockdown deaths were the actual cause of the catastrophe. Schroedinger's Covid-19 :-)
      - josephcsible 6y ago
        > I'd assume that those deaths couldn't have been lockdown deaths since, you know, no lockdown yet. I'm confused. Lockdown happened first, and the plateau of deaths happened second.
        oblio 6y ago
        You're starting to get it. People were dying, in increasing numbers, before lockdowns. During lockdowns, the numbers of deaths went down. So how could anyone, in good faith, argue that lockdown death numbers are somehow similar to Covid-19 death numbers?
        legerdemain 6y ago
        Please, no snide condescension. I haven't seen anyone here, and certainly not josephcbible, make absurdly absolute claims that Covid hasn't killed _anyone_. I'm sure Covid has been a factor in the deaths of many people. Deaths, as reported, peaked in the spring. Epidemiologists have a name for an entirely mainstream explanation of what happened. They call it a "harvesting effect." I agree that the name is unsavory. It refers to a disease quickly culling the weak in a population. The majority of the excess mortality has accumulated since spring, _after_ the country went into forced lockdown. There is no reason to default to the belief, as you seem to be doing, that Covid has continued killing masses and masses of people. Certainly not compared to the much more salient explanatory force of the massive, nationwide lockdowns.
        oblio 6y ago

irrational 6y ago

> healthful bars ???

legerdemain 6y ago
Bars play a crucial role in Americans' public health.
lolc 6y ago
Socializing is healthful to humans. Consuming alcohol is hurting. Now if we'd go so far as to assume that people consume the same amount of alcohol at home, then staying home is a net negative for health. I don't actually know how alcohol consumption developed during lockdown, so I don't know whether there is any merit to that line of argument. But I see how it can be made.

jfim 6y ago

> keep people out of healthful bars and restaurants where they could consume a more diverse diet The portion sizes [0] and food served in bars and restaurants in the US are not healthy. Generally, home cooking is associated with consuming fewer calories and improve certain health outcomes [1]. [0] https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/03/29/portion-sizes https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/03/29/portion-sizes [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/home-cooking-good-for-your-health-2018081514449 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/home-cooking-good-for-yo...

Viliam1234 6y ago

> keep people out of healthful bars and restaurants If it turns out that what people cook at home is even less healthy than food in restaurants, that is a horrible thing, and we should definitely start teaching cooking at schools, regardless of Covid. I mean, restaurants have all the incentives to cook food that is tastier or cheaper at the expense of health. Simply using less sugar and salt at home, and adding some fresh vegetables to each meal, should already result in healthier diet even if you are a beginner at cooking. But yeah, I can imagine that many people are below the level of beginner.