5 ms·

Top of my wish list would be a python <-> VSCode experience at the typescript level of quality. Interesting that mypy is a Dropbox (GvR’s previous gig) whereas

Top of my wish list would be a python <-> VSCode experience at the typescript level of quality. Interesting that mypy is a Dropbox (GvR’s previous gig) whereas Microsoft has a competitor python type checker, pyright [0]. Anyone have experience with it? [0] https://github.com/microsoft/pyright https://github.com/microsoft/pyright

dehrmann 6y ago
Why not use Pycharm?
- falcor84 6y ago
  Well, one good reason is that unlike VS Code, Pycharm is not open source.
  - criddell 6y ago
    How often have you ever needed the source code for your text editor?
  - duckerude 6y ago
    The community edition is (Apache 2): https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community/tree/master/python https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community/tree/master/...
    - falcor84 6y ago
      Thanks for sharing. This is really cool. And I'm slightly surprised that Pycharm uses the exact same codebase as IntelliJ, just with a different run configuration [0]. It makes perfect sense of course, but I was pleasantly surprised. [0] `To run PyCharm Community Edition, please use the provided run configuration "PyCharm Community Edition"`
- bredren 6y ago
  This is an unpopular opinion around here, and I use pycharm almost every day, but I think the future is vscode. Reason is MS doesn’t need to make money on the tool, because it has a halo of services it can sell in and offer perfect integrations for. In addition, MS has GitHub and thus privledged ability to learn from new public code as it is pushed. AI-based code completion offered by kite and tabnine is totally being slept on right now, and MS has the resources to offer a very refined and constantly improving take on this massive dev services opportunity. Jetbrains has said it has a long term project focused on this but as of now there is nothing. I am not suggesting abandoning Pycharm any time soon but it is going to take a bigger company than jetbrains to keep pycharm in the race against vscode.
  - ptx 6y ago
    If the future is made up of tools so complicated that only giant corporations are able to provide them, I hope we'll also see a strong counter-movement of simple tools for independent developers.
    - bredren 6y ago
      I think the future is made up of powerful tools so simple that only great resources can build them. Simple tools that hide the magic are harder to build. The fix is in because vscode itself will be forkable at any time. It will just be that _services_ from microsoft and other companies will be designed for the tool. For example, this AI code completion behavior. I can say right now that if tabnine had a version working in Pycharm that did not break autoimports, I would already be paying a monthly subscription for it. Jetbrains should be offering something similar ASAP. Another example would be PaaS for frameworks using Azure. Start a project, choose a domain name, instant staging and production deployments. Anyone could build these kinds of plugins to sell in services. It will really be about who does it best. Though, I think Microsoft is specifically positioning itself for a long term play here and I think much of it centers around vscode.
      - ptx 6y ago
        I was thinking simple in the sense of less hidden magic. Deployment can easily be done with a script from the terminal, which doesn't need special IDE integration. "Starting a project" doesn't need any tools at all in simple cases - one could try to keep cases simple. Python usually has less need for auto-imports than Java does because APIs are simpler, names shorter and modules more coarse-grained. You might not need an IDE and an AI with simple tools. Of course, some problems require or benefit from complicated magic tools, but perhaps not all problems do.
sime2009 6y ago
It is hard to tell how Pyright and Mypy compare head to head. I've been using Pyright for quite a long time and have seen the huge leaps forward it has made. The experience feels a lot like how I remember PyCharm from a few years ago. I would really miss it if it were gone.
berekuk 6y ago
Microsoft is betting on pylance for VSCode instead of pyright, though, and pylance is not open-source [0]. I wonder if Guido will be ok with that. For me pylance looks like the biggest evidence that embrace-extend-extingish mindset is still alive in Microsoft, unfortunately. [0] https://github.com/microsoft/pylance-release https://github.com/microsoft/pylance-release
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Microsoft is betting on pylance for VSCode instead of pyright Not really "instead of", since pyright is the typing engine for pylance.

dehrmann 6y ago

Why not use Pycharm?

falcor84 6y ago
Well, one good reason is that unlike VS Code, Pycharm is not open source.
- criddell 6y ago
  How often have you ever needed the source code for your text editor?
- duckerude 6y ago
  The community edition is (Apache 2): https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community/tree/master/python https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community/tree/master/...
  - falcor84 6y ago
    Thanks for sharing. This is really cool. And I'm slightly surprised that Pycharm uses the exact same codebase as IntelliJ, just with a different run configuration [0]. It makes perfect sense of course, but I was pleasantly surprised. [0] `To run PyCharm Community Edition, please use the provided run configuration "PyCharm Community Edition"`
bredren 6y ago
This is an unpopular opinion around here, and I use pycharm almost every day, but I think the future is vscode. Reason is MS doesn’t need to make money on the tool, because it has a halo of services it can sell in and offer perfect integrations for. In addition, MS has GitHub and thus privledged ability to learn from new public code as it is pushed. AI-based code completion offered by kite and tabnine is totally being slept on right now, and MS has the resources to offer a very refined and constantly improving take on this massive dev services opportunity. Jetbrains has said it has a long term project focused on this but as of now there is nothing. I am not suggesting abandoning Pycharm any time soon but it is going to take a bigger company than jetbrains to keep pycharm in the race against vscode.
- ptx 6y ago
  If the future is made up of tools so complicated that only giant corporations are able to provide them, I hope we'll also see a strong counter-movement of simple tools for independent developers.
  - bredren 6y ago
    I think the future is made up of powerful tools so simple that only great resources can build them. Simple tools that hide the magic are harder to build. The fix is in because vscode itself will be forkable at any time. It will just be that _services_ from microsoft and other companies will be designed for the tool. For example, this AI code completion behavior. I can say right now that if tabnine had a version working in Pycharm that did not break autoimports, I would already be paying a monthly subscription for it. Jetbrains should be offering something similar ASAP. Another example would be PaaS for frameworks using Azure. Start a project, choose a domain name, instant staging and production deployments. Anyone could build these kinds of plugins to sell in services. It will really be about who does it best. Though, I think Microsoft is specifically positioning itself for a long term play here and I think much of it centers around vscode.
    - ptx 6y ago
      I was thinking simple in the sense of less hidden magic. Deployment can easily be done with a script from the terminal, which doesn't need special IDE integration. "Starting a project" doesn't need any tools at all in simple cases - one could try to keep cases simple. Python usually has less need for auto-imports than Java does because APIs are simpler, names shorter and modules more coarse-grained. You might not need an IDE and an AI with simple tools. Of course, some problems require or benefit from complicated magic tools, but perhaps not all problems do.

sime2009 6y ago

It is hard to tell how Pyright and Mypy compare head to head. I've been using Pyright for quite a long time and have seen the huge leaps forward it has made. The experience feels a lot like how I remember PyCharm from a few years ago. I would really miss it if it were gone.

berekuk 6y ago

Microsoft is betting on pylance for VSCode instead of pyright, though, and pylance is not open-source [0]. I wonder if Guido will be ok with that. For me pylance looks like the biggest evidence that embrace-extend-extingish mindset is still alive in Microsoft, unfortunately. [0] https://github.com/microsoft/pylance-release https://github.com/microsoft/pylance-release

dragonwriter 6y ago
> Microsoft is betting on pylance for VSCode instead of pyright Not really "instead of", since pyright is the typing engine for pylance.