5 ms·

Firstly, participants in the control group had a high level of activity throughout the study, and many exercised using HIIT. I absolutely get why they had to u

Firstly, participants in the control group had a high level of activity throughout the study, and many exercised using HIIT. I absolutely get why they had to use a control group that was decently in shape, otherwise the effect size compared to the sedentary would probably have been so massive as to be comical and uninformative. But…where are they getting 75-year-olds who are doing HIIT? Is Norway full of septuagenarian gym rats and cross-country skiers?

conistonwater 6y ago
Well the paper clearly states that they interviewed 6966 septuagenarians and 5114 of them "declined to participate".
- watwut 6y ago
  Reading the study, participating in our was quite commitment. No wonder people declined. HIIT is relative to your shape, so their workout was not the same as 24 years old dude in shape would have.
  - semi-extrinsic 6y ago
    Still, going at 90% of your maximum heart rate repeatedly for two-three minute intervals is really hard work, at any age and shape. And as others pointed out, the baseline group here is probably a force of nature unto themselves. 75-year old Norwegians were born into a poor country just starting to recover from war and occupation, where most people were farmers or fishermen. It was not until these people had been working adults for 10 years that Norway discovered oil and began its rapid economic growth, by that time these people were used to hard work. Then you take that generation, and select the toughest portion out of those who say they are interested in participating in a scientific study on exercise, so a two stage selection of fit people. Basically the baseline here consists of people who think hiking in the mountain for several hours is great fun, and that it's been a bad week if they have not done so twice.
    - watwut 6y ago
      > Basically the baseline here consists of people who think hiking in the mountain for several hours is great fun, and that it's been a bad week if they have not done so twice. Isn't it like, almost everyone? Except possibility to do it twice a week. Most people I know think hiking in the mountain is great way to spend holiday and they are not particularly tough.
nabla9 6y ago
> Is Norway full of septuagenarian gym rats and cross-country skiers? Compared to the rest of the Europe, yes. Article based on Eurostat data: https://qz.com/922865/people-in-nordic-countries-exercise-more-than-anyone-in-europe/ https://qz.com/922865/people-in-nordic-countries-exercise-mo...
- elcritch 6y ago
  That level of baseline activity could explain why the MICT actually increased the all-cause-mortality risks. It appears the the mixed control group means that the MICT was actually reducing the average exercise intensity from the norm. What a frickin' overachieving set of septuagenarians (reminds me of Mr. Awesome in Chuck)! I'd assume if there were more "no/low" exercise group the MICT would appear much better. Tantalizing results though.
  - strken 6y ago
    The control group wasn't assigned to do their regular level of exercise, but rather to follow an exercise routine based on the Norwegian government's existing recommendations. The authors expected a 10% 5 year mortality rate based on population-wide estimates, and their control group had a 4.7% 5 year mortality rate.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
tmp538394722 6y ago
Is Norway full of... Nordic skiers? Indeed! In seriousness, Nordic (cross country) skiing is an activity enjoyable well into old age. Having done a couple non-competitive “races”, I’m always amazed at the range of ages. ...Adorable old timers with perfect form just slowly gliding across the snow for hours.

conistonwater 6y ago

Well the paper clearly states that they interviewed 6966 septuagenarians and 5114 of them "declined to participate".

watwut 6y ago
Reading the study, participating in our was quite commitment. No wonder people declined. HIIT is relative to your shape, so their workout was not the same as 24 years old dude in shape would have.
- semi-extrinsic 6y ago
  Still, going at 90% of your maximum heart rate repeatedly for two-three minute intervals is really hard work, at any age and shape. And as others pointed out, the baseline group here is probably a force of nature unto themselves. 75-year old Norwegians were born into a poor country just starting to recover from war and occupation, where most people were farmers or fishermen. It was not until these people had been working adults for 10 years that Norway discovered oil and began its rapid economic growth, by that time these people were used to hard work. Then you take that generation, and select the toughest portion out of those who say they are interested in participating in a scientific study on exercise, so a two stage selection of fit people. Basically the baseline here consists of people who think hiking in the mountain for several hours is great fun, and that it's been a bad week if they have not done so twice.
  - watwut 6y ago
    > Basically the baseline here consists of people who think hiking in the mountain for several hours is great fun, and that it's been a bad week if they have not done so twice. Isn't it like, almost everyone? Except possibility to do it twice a week. Most people I know think hiking in the mountain is great way to spend holiday and they are not particularly tough.

nabla9 6y ago

> Is Norway full of septuagenarian gym rats and cross-country skiers? Compared to the rest of the Europe, yes. Article based on Eurostat data: https://qz.com/922865/people-in-nordic-countries-exercise-more-than-anyone-in-europe/ https://qz.com/922865/people-in-nordic-countries-exercise-mo...

elcritch 6y ago
That level of baseline activity could explain why the MICT actually increased the all-cause-mortality risks. It appears the the mixed control group means that the MICT was actually reducing the average exercise intensity from the norm. What a frickin' overachieving set of septuagenarians (reminds me of Mr. Awesome in Chuck)! I'd assume if there were more "no/low" exercise group the MICT would appear much better. Tantalizing results though.
- strken 6y ago
  The control group wasn't assigned to do their regular level of exercise, but rather to follow an exercise routine based on the Norwegian government's existing recommendations. The authors expected a 10% 5 year mortality rate based on population-wide estimates, and their control group had a 4.7% 5 year mortality rate.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

tmp538394722 6y ago

Is Norway full of... Nordic skiers? Indeed! In seriousness, Nordic (cross country) skiing is an activity enjoyable well into old age. Having done a couple non-competitive “races”, I’m always amazed at the range of ages. ...Adorable old timers with perfect form just slowly gliding across the snow for hours.