4 ms·

Summary: Design it in the US, build it in China. The difference between the space race back then and the current situation now is that "out innovating" China d

Summary: Design it in the US, build it in China. The difference between the space race back then and the current situation now is that "out innovating" China doesn't really lead to many jobs here in the US.

radioactive21 16y ago
Exactly what I was going to say. US and many Western countries are idea machines, but they are all built in Asia. As someone said, Japan takes something and makes it better, China takes something and makes it cheaper.
- c3pohknow 16y ago
  Does anyone know what exactly the price difference would be if companies actually bothered to build in the US instead of China? I know it would depend on what was being produced, but what is the real savings of making shoes and clothes abroad? American Apparel pays at least $10-12 per hour (not great, but better than pennies) and there are certainly many Americans who were making that and were laid off. They won't be founding startups, but I'm sure many would love to learn the skills to work in a factory if it was even an option here anymore. What do companies save by outsourcing to countries where they don't pay taxes, health care, benefits, vacation, and price per hour is dirt cheap? I heard 20% somewhere a while back. If an iPad cost 20% more would it still sell? Or a pair of Nike shoes? While it has been victim of some about of fraud, Product(RED) got people to pay a bit extra for something they would have bought anyway knowing that money was going to a good cause. The middle class is under attack, but the bottom is really struggling and things are only going to get worse. Some people depend on being a cashier. If we can stabilize the bottom workers we can rebuild from there.
  - rdl 16y ago
    There are a lot of issues other than just wages in a lot of this manufacturing. I think environmental and other compliance costs are a major factor for a lot of manufacturing, and for many forms of electronics, being near your suppliers is a big deal -- and now china has reached a critical mass of subcontractors and suppliers, such that it's easier to build in china. I actually have some hardware projects I want to build over the next decade, and I'd prefer to produce them in the US or UK if at all possible (they're security devices). Should be interesting seeing exactly what can be done. I believe if you can solve the subcontractor/parts problem, modern automation should make US production competitive, as long as your production process isn't terribly polluting or regulated (which I wouldn't want to be responsible for even if it happened in China). Some place like eastern WA or TN or something might be a great place to manufacture high value products again.
neuroelectronic 16y ago
It's a real shame, great thinkers can no longer congragate inside a company, least their ideas are taken for little compansation and implemented across seas. Great programmers are always breaking away from their 9-5 to create their own start-ups, but is this really the most efficent way?
pkteison 16y ago
I worry that we will be missing out on the category of new design ideas that are developed while building something. Out of a factory full of people intimately familiar with making a widget, a few of those people should have some pretty good ideas for a better widget or a better way to make the widget. But these days, if the factory is in the US, there are almost no people in it.
- patrickgzill 16y ago
  Some of the highend, big-dollar audiophile tube stuff is now coming out of China... the tube factories moved to lower-wage areas (out of the USA) and to places like China. Someone capitalized on the combination of (easy available tubes) + (ability to be able to custom-assemble in small qty) + specialized design.
- SkyMarshal 16y ago
  That is exactly Andy Grove's recent argument as well - innovation comes not just from people with random ideas, but from the knowledge organizations develop as they make things. You can't outsource the latter and expect your innovation pipeline to remain as full.

radioactive21 16y ago

Exactly what I was going to say. US and many Western countries are idea machines, but they are all built in Asia. As someone said, Japan takes something and makes it better, China takes something and makes it cheaper.

c3pohknow 16y ago
Does anyone know what exactly the price difference would be if companies actually bothered to build in the US instead of China? I know it would depend on what was being produced, but what is the real savings of making shoes and clothes abroad? American Apparel pays at least $10-12 per hour (not great, but better than pennies) and there are certainly many Americans who were making that and were laid off. They won't be founding startups, but I'm sure many would love to learn the skills to work in a factory if it was even an option here anymore. What do companies save by outsourcing to countries where they don't pay taxes, health care, benefits, vacation, and price per hour is dirt cheap? I heard 20% somewhere a while back. If an iPad cost 20% more would it still sell? Or a pair of Nike shoes? While it has been victim of some about of fraud, Product(RED) got people to pay a bit extra for something they would have bought anyway knowing that money was going to a good cause. The middle class is under attack, but the bottom is really struggling and things are only going to get worse. Some people depend on being a cashier. If we can stabilize the bottom workers we can rebuild from there.
- rdl 16y ago
  There are a lot of issues other than just wages in a lot of this manufacturing. I think environmental and other compliance costs are a major factor for a lot of manufacturing, and for many forms of electronics, being near your suppliers is a big deal -- and now china has reached a critical mass of subcontractors and suppliers, such that it's easier to build in china. I actually have some hardware projects I want to build over the next decade, and I'd prefer to produce them in the US or UK if at all possible (they're security devices). Should be interesting seeing exactly what can be done. I believe if you can solve the subcontractor/parts problem, modern automation should make US production competitive, as long as your production process isn't terribly polluting or regulated (which I wouldn't want to be responsible for even if it happened in China). Some place like eastern WA or TN or something might be a great place to manufacture high value products again.

neuroelectronic 16y ago

It's a real shame, great thinkers can no longer congragate inside a company, least their ideas are taken for little compansation and implemented across seas. Great programmers are always breaking away from their 9-5 to create their own start-ups, but is this really the most efficent way?

pkteison 16y ago

I worry that we will be missing out on the category of new design ideas that are developed while building something. Out of a factory full of people intimately familiar with making a widget, a few of those people should have some pretty good ideas for a better widget or a better way to make the widget. But these days, if the factory is in the US, there are almost no people in it.

patrickgzill 16y ago
Some of the highend, big-dollar audiophile tube stuff is now coming out of China... the tube factories moved to lower-wage areas (out of the USA) and to places like China. Someone capitalized on the combination of (easy available tubes) + (ability to be able to custom-assemble in small qty) + specialized design.
SkyMarshal 16y ago
That is exactly Andy Grove's recent argument as well - innovation comes not just from people with random ideas, but from the knowledge organizations develop as they make things. You can't outsource the latter and expect your innovation pipeline to remain as full.